This is seriously the second hand of the tourney - and with all of these limpers I pot it, hoping to take down the pot right there or atleast go HU. So, no reads on the MP re-raiser. My initial thought here was to jam, and say oh well, but I honestly do not know what else he could be re-raising with except KK, AA, AK - or is this a resteal this early? I am sure the optimal play here is to fold, but something doesn't feel right, with all of these limpers do you just limp from his position with AA or KK?

Stage #1445551473 Tourney ID 1947095 Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $20 - 2009-02-03 11:03:38 (ET)
Table: 26750171 (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 1 - DOUGIEMAC56 ($1500 in chips)
Seat 2 - JDSBACK ($1560 in chips)
Seat 3 - HALLDAVE68 ($1480 in chips)
Seat 4 - DURBDAWG ($1480 in chips)
Seat 5 - OTTAWARIVER ($1480 in chips)
Seat 6 - JWF77 ($1500 in chips)
Seat 7 - LAZYJAKE ($1500 in chips)
Seat 8 - FIRESKIP ($1500 in chips)
Seat 9 - ANDREW3K ($1500 in chips)
HALLDAVE68 - Posts small blind $10
DURBDAWG - Posts big blind $20
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to DURBDAWG [Jc Js]
OTTAWARIVER - Calls $20
JWF77 - Calls $20
LAZYJAKE - Calls $20
FIRESKIP - Folds
ANDREW3K - Calls $20
DOUGIEMAC56 - Folds
JDSBACK - Calls $20
HALLDAVE68 - Calls $10
DURBDAWG - Raises $140 to $160
OTTAWARIVER - Calls $140
JWF77 - Folds
LAZYJAKE - Calls $140
ANDREW3K - Raises $840 to $860
JDSBACK - Folds
HALLDAVE68 - Folds
DURBDAWG -???

 

Originally Posted by daphishermen

at this point easiest fold of your life.

really, easiest fold of your life? In a $20 game where some players have some intellegence. This looks like a squeeze to me. I'm with you, 2 limpers, and he's limping a monster? Really?

With the 2 callers after you, your getting great odds to call here. My gut is telling me small pair. Your raise looks AK ish, and you might fold. If you call, he is flipping.

I don't know, in a $10 game, I'd fold here. In this spot, you shouldn't have raised if you don't want to play this. This smells really funny, I'm pushing (assuming it's folding back to you). If he has AA,KK, he played it so badly that he hid it perfectly, and he'll get paid off, and think he made a great move.

But, your raise looks like a steal that doesn't want to play the pot, I'm not backing away here.

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">would agree totally with daph based on the many times in the past I would have made a call.

Experience is a good educator though and if I had some info on ANDREW3K in that he was an avg or above plyr I'd be pretty sure he was holding AA or KK.

You have a point tho kSIZZLE that his limp in mid / late pos is strange if holding a monster. The best you could hope for would be 99 or 10 10 but even if he's poor and is holding KQ ur only 50/50.

Fold in this situation every time and wait for better opportunities would be my take.

Good luck!
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Im probably going to get it in here and be sure to take a note on his play. I've seen too many players turn over something like 88 or 99 in this situation. They dont want to fold so they commit themselves thinking you are making a steal. If he is clever enough to limp behind 3 players with a monster then he deserves my chips:)

Easiest fold ever??? Uhh, no.

You really think he's limping pre after 3 other limpers with the intention of shipping it in now with AA, KK, or QQ? And your justification is that he's a good player? Please. A good player doesn't limp a big pair behind 3 other limpers. Maybe that's possible on occasion, but in reality this stinks of donkey. Good players don't play like this... period.

There's maybe a 3% chance that this guy is trying to get cute with a big pair, but the other 97% of the time this is a donktard with 99 or some random hand. The only hands he could turn over that are bad for you are AK or AQ, and you're a small favorite being compensated by what already in the pot when that happens. Most of the time you're crushing him in this spot. Ship it in every time. Easiest call ever.

usually if they have QQ+ they will not raise to more than 5x what you raised... it's much more likely this person overlimped a decent hand like a-js or 7-7 and now figures the pot is worth trying to win with his decent hand

 

Originally Posted by lind0

Easiest fold ever??? Uhh, no.

You really think he's limping pre after 3 other limpers with the intention of shipping it in now with AA, KK, or QQ? And your justification is that he's a good player? Please. A good player doesn't limp a big pair behind 3 other limpers. Maybe that's possible on occasion, but in reality this stinks of donkey. Good players don't play like this... period.

There's maybe a 3% chance that this guy is trying to get cute with a big pair, but the other 97% of the time this is a donktard with 99 or some random hand. The only hands he could turn over that are bad for you are AK or AQ, and you're a small favorite being compensated by what already in the pot when that happens. Most of the time you're crushing him in this spot. Ship it in every time. Easiest call ever.

Just one thing to add to this...

From his perspective, he's seen you make a big bet in a prime stealing position. People steal the pot with air in this type of spot (late pre-flop position, a bunch of limpers) all the time, so he won't necessarily think you need to have a strong hand to do this. Plus, don't forget that you made a pretty big bet. If he's a thinking player, he'll interpret that big bet to mean that you want everyone to go away and fold. Now, I'm not gonna come back at you with my 8's or 9's in this spot without knowing you, but I'd be suspicious of your bet, and that's good enough for a lot of people out there to come after you. Just remember that there's plenty of reasons for someone to interpret your bet as a move.

I guess my main point is that it's a lot more likely you've run into one of the guys who wants to take his middle pair up against you, than it is that you've run into someone who likes to be soooo tricky that they just have to limp AA pre flop behind 3 limpers.

 

Originally Posted by wavegoodbye

this a 20 sng... the only way i put him on a big hand is if he limps utg or if i know he is a reg or a solid player... if he's just some low limit donkey, then ship this all day

To those who are saying they're less likely to call as the limit gets higher and the players get better, I say you have it backwards. Good players don't play hands like this. Who the F is so tricky that they're trying to trap people in level 1 or 2 and taking huge risks with big pairs? I'll tell you who... donkeys. I'm way more scared of a bad player making this move. In the early stages, good players play their big pairs fast. They don't mess around like this. Even the decent players don't play like this. Limping big pairs behind a bunch of limpers in the early stages is not a "cool trap move" or a good tricky play. It's a donkey move, and you'd only ever see this from an overly tricky amateur.

You will certainly see super-stong players flat calling and trapping with big pairs as the blinds get big and the stacks get short, but no truly good sng player is EVER limping a big pair behind 3 limpers at this stage. EVER.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm snap-calling at any limit for the reasons I explained in my previous post, but I don't want anyone thinking this is somehow the tricky play of a great player, and that this is the stuff that's going on at the higher limits. Leave the trapping with big pairs in the early levels for the donkeys. The good players don't do this stuff.