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Early tournament play with suited connectors...

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  1. CoderMan1 CoderMan1 is offline

    Nashville, TN
    United States

    Posts: 998
    Joined: Feb 05

    Jan 16th, 2007 (1/16/2007 11:04am)

    A friend and I are having a debate on how to play suited connectors in the early stages of a tournament. My opinion is that I dont like to raise with them, but I will call small raises with them especially in deeper stacked tourneys. His opinion is to raise with them to get rid of people who can potentially outflop you or suck out on you. My feeling is that if I go raising with ever suited connector I get my stack will be widdled down quickly, the pot grows so bigger so you have more odds to call on draws, and you feel more compelled to throw out a continuation bet after the flop.

    This is the hand that brought up the debate, he says I played it wrong because I didnt raise preflop. I wait till the turn to put the chips in as I feel he has AK or AA because of the way hes betting.

    For what it matters, im 90% on the flop and 80% on the turn. Obviously I could have check raised on the flop, but I like to wait for the turn and make sure its not a J, 9, T before I go dumping all my chips in vs TJ or J9 suited or something.

    What is your opinion on this play and suited connectors in general early in tournaments?

    Full Tilt Poker Game #1608563345: $18 000 Guarantee (11312585) Table 28 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:02:26 ET - 2007/01/15
    Seat 1: Jacked_Freak (3 060)
    Seat 2: monroetn (2 940)
    Seat 3: birdplaya (3 015)
    Seat 4: WzUPDoc (3 015)
    Seat 5: Hohenlingus (3 000)
    Seat 6: -MrGeeDK- (3 000)
    Seat 7: CoderMan1 (3 000)
    Seat 8: fill aivi (3 000)
    Seat 9: squeekmeek (2 970)
    birdplaya posts the small blind of 15
    WzUPDoc posts the big blind of 30
    The button is in seat #2

    Holecards:
    Dealt to CoderMan1 [ ]
    Hohenlingus folds
    -MrGeeDK- folds
    CoderMan1 calls 30
    fill aivi folds
    squeekmeek folds
    Jacked_Freak raises to 120
    monroetn folds
    birdplaya calls 105
    WzUPDoc calls 90
    CoderMan1 calls 90

    Flop:
    [ ]
    birdplaya checks
    WzUPDoc checks
    CoderMan1 checks
    Jacked_Freak bets 390
    birdplaya folds
    WzUPDoc folds
    CoderMan1 calls 390

    Turn:
    [ ] [ ]
    CoderMan1 checks
    Jacked_Freak bets 1,320
    CoderMan1 raises to 2,490, and is all in
    Jacked_Freak calls 1,170
    CoderMan1 shows [ ]
    Jacked_Freak shows [ ]

    River:
    [ ] [ ]
    CoderMan1 shows two pair Jacks and Eights
    Jacked_Freak shows two pair Kings and Jacks
    Jacked_Freak wins the pot (6 240) with two pair Kings and Jacks
    CoderMan1 stands up

    SUMMARY:
    Total pot 6 240 | Rake 0
    Board:
    [ ]
    Seat 1: Jacked_Freak showed [ ] and won (6 240) with two pair Kings and Jacks
    Seat 2: monroetn (button) didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 3: birdplaya (small blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 4: WzUPDoc (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 5: Hohenlingus didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 6: -MrGeeDK- didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 7: CoderMan1 showed [ ] and lost with two pair Jacks and Eights
    Seat 8: fill aivi didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 9: squeekmeek didn't bet (folded)
  2. supermoves supermoves is offline invented poker

    Posts: 6,840
    Joined: Feb 05

    Jan 16th, 2007 (1/16/2007 11:14am) in reply to CoderMan1

    In the first level of a tourney (5/10 or 10/20) if I think I can limp from EP, I will do that. In the first hour of a tourney I will limp with them in LP or call a small raise in LP.

    The table dynamic tells me how to play them. If my table is limping alot (or allowing a lot of limping) I will limp. If they are raising a lot, I'll make a normal raise and let someone else call it. I try not to play them out of position. In fact, if I limp from say 3rd position with 7-8 and the flop is K-8-3 Ill often just check-fold. If Im playnig them from EP, which I only do if Im fairly certain I can limp, I am looking for a HUGE flop...88x, 77x, 78x, flush draw...if I hit middle pair or something, Im often just folding.
    1
  3. KingPariah KingPariah is offline

    Boone, NC
    United States

    Posts: 4,471
    Joined: Dec 05

    Jan 16th, 2007 (1/16/2007 11:25am) in reply to CoderMan1

    Okay, in the given HH I believe limping is the correct play, here is my logic..(I am not going to discuss any post flop action, thats not what you're looking for I dont think)

    You dont mind playing this hand for 3-4x in this spot given the implied odds of 4 people seeing the flop. If you raise and get reraised you end up being forced to play it for like 8-12x which is not ideal at all, but calling with intentions of calling a raise still allows you to play it for only 4x. If you miss the flop you are getting out pretty cheap still, but if you hit the flop you are probably going to get paid off by at least one player. In this situation you want to see the flop with as many people as possible so your implied odds will be much higher if you hit a monster flop.

    However, if you're in LP with 78s (lets say the cutoff) I believe raising is correct. However, I am not raising in that spot to steal the blinds (although it will happen some), I am raising with the intent of getting maybe one call in the blind, and easily taking it away on the flop with a c/b.
  4. YoungStunna89 YoungStunna89 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 497
    Joined: Oct 06

    Jan 16th, 2007 (1/16/2007 11:27am) in reply to CoderMan1

    yes play suited connecters in a tourny with 100bb, but when you hit two pair on a flop with that board i would raise his bet to 1500 to let him know you are committed
  5. Worldclass Worldclass is offline

    Dallas, TX
    United States

    Posts: 109
    Joined: Mar 05

    Jan 16th, 2007 (1/16/2007 11:34am) in reply to supermoves

    <SPAN>I think people tend to overrate their implied odds when playing suited connectors early in a tourney. The best situation for playing these is in late position with a few limpers or after an early raise with a few callers. You are hoping that the early raiser has a big pair so you can bust him when you flop two pair or better but remember that you arent that big of a favorite with two pair against an over pair and you will get drawn out on over 25% of the time.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>Playing these hands out of position is a bad idea Your hand doesnt flop that well often enough to make up for limping in for 30 and calling another 90 when you are out of position. In a multi-way pot your hand becomes somewhat playable even out of position but you must be deep in chips and your opponents must be deep as well. </SPAN>
  6. rebuyZ moss rebuyZ moss is offline

    Alto, MI
    United States

    Posts: 54
    Joined: Mar 06

    Jan 16th, 2007 (1/16/2007 12:39pm) in reply to YoungStunna89

    lol @ flat call flop
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