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To ease my mind once and for all....

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  1. RapidRevilo RapidRevilo is offline

    Adelaide
    Australia

    Posts: 219
    Joined: Jan 08

    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 6:53am)

    In any game of any structure, be it MTT, SNG or ring game, of any buyin, against any opponent, with any stack size with any play, be it open shove, flat call, min bet, limp in, over bet, 3 bet.....

    Is anyone EVER getting away from KK vs AA????

    Is it true that this is a genuine spot where skill/experience/intelligence/buyin dont matter and your screwed as soon as you look at your cards?

    There's too many 'fold KK pre' threads and i want to ease my mind once and for all that if you get dealt KK vs AA, you need a miracle - end of story.
  2. Goldenad Goldenad is offline

    NJ
    United States

    Posts: 2,669
    Joined: Jun 06

    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 7:02am) in reply to RapidRevilo

    long story short: actually wait no, short story short:

    never fold AA preflop ever ever ever unless youre playing in a satellite and can 100% cash if you fold

    never fold KK preflop ever ever ever unless youre playing in a satellite and can 100% cash if you fold ORRRRR you have some ultrasick mega superman read that someone has aces, which you probably need with like a raise, 3 bet, cold 4 bet, cold 5 bet in front of you.

    realize that with KK youre fine getting it in as long as the guys range isnt ONLY aces. once it becomes QQ+ and AK you have to get it in

    dont think of it as "youre screwed as soon as you look at your cards." granted, KK and AA dont always hold up when you get them preflop, but that doesnt mean you should scare away from playing the two best hands in poker when you get them. just be careful after the flop and dont go broke on ridiculously bad boards
     
  3. MYBLUEDOG MYBLUEDOG is offline

    Greenville, MS
    United States

    Posts: 1,999
    Joined: May 07

    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 7:09am) in reply to RapidRevilo

    If you start folding KK, to most situations pre-flop or any situation pre-flop; you better keep it quiet. Otherwise you'll get run over.

    To make a legitimate fold pre-flop; you need significant history with the opponent and a good read that he/she has you beat. It's basically the same as folding AA, pre-flop because there are multiple all-in before you get to bet. AA/KK aren't always a significant favorite multi-way because they are only a pair and may be dodging lots of outs from other players. Those are rare occurrences.
  4. chrisp200 chrisp200 is offline

    Pittsburgh, PA
    United States

    Posts: 450
    Joined: Jul 09

    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 12:13pm) in reply to RapidRevilo

    folded KK once preflop with 3 all ins...worst fold I have ever made, never again unless satellite situation
     
  5. bohemian119 bohemian119 is offline BANNED MONEY TRANSFER SCAMMER

    Peoria, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,312
    Joined: Aug 09

    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 12:19pm) in reply to chrisp200

    ive folded kk pre when the only hand that made sense that villain would have is aa. ive also had a guy fold kk pre face up to me deep in $120 mtt after he 3 bet 25% of his stack and i had aa. one time in the $1k on UB i got 4 bet pre for 33% of my stack by a tough reg not even 2 levels into the tourney holding kk, knew i should of got rid of it but didn't, pushed ai and busted when he had aa and the board ran out. long story short never fold aa pre unless u are gtd a seat in a satty and only fold kk if you really think the villain has aa.
  6. Cmoney3 Cmoney3 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 12,401
    Joined: Dec 05

    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 12:23pm) in reply to bohemian119

    OP if u have under 200 bbs its ok to get it in, unless its one of those spots where it goes, all in for 100bbs, call 100bbs, fold, fold, call 100bbs, call 100bbs, then u can fold KK
  7. u shove i call u shove i call is offline

    Posts: 374
    Joined: Aug 08

    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 12:31pm) in reply to RapidRevilo

    Only time I have ever folded kk pre was yesterday. Glad i was right! The utg raiser was the only one i was worried about as he had super nit stats 11/9.

    pokerstars Game #35738971577: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD) - 2009/11/23 14:22:34 WET [2009/11/23 9:22:34 ET]
    Table 'Kalyke II' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 2: Tellsell ($31.45 in chips)
    Seat 3: katiemikexxx ($68.65 in chips)
    Seat 4: pisanofrpitt ($34.45 in chips)
    Seat 5: jimbbobb ($51.20 in chips)
    Seat 6: blufkingAAAA ($55.45 in chips)
    katiemikexxx: posts small blind $0.25
    pisanofrpitt: posts big blind $0.50
    meppe89: sits out
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to katiemikexxx [Kc Kh]
    jimbbobb: raises $1.50 to $2
    blufkingAAAA: folds
    Tellsell: calls $2
    katiemikexxx: raises $6 to $8
    pisanofrpitt: raises $26.45 to $34.45 and is all-in
    jimbbobb: raises $16.75 to $51.20 and is all-in
    Tellsell: calls $29.45 and is all-in
    katiemikexxx said, "what the ****"
    katiemikexxx: folds
    Uncalled bet ($16.75) returned to jimbbobb
    *** FLOP *** [Th Jc 7c]
    *** TURN *** [Th Jc 7c] [Js]
    *** RIVER *** [Th Jc 7c Js] [3h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    pisanofrpitt: shows [Ah Kd] (a pair of Jacks)
    jimbbobb: shows [Ac As] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
    jimbbobb collected $6 from side pot
    Tellsell: shows [8c 8s] (two pair, Jacks and Eights)
    jimbbobb collected $100.35 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $108.35 Main pot $100.35. Side pot $6. | Rake $2
    Board [Th Jc 7c Js 3h]
    Seat 2: Tellsell (button) showed [8c 8s] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Eights
    Seat 3: katiemikexxx (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 4: pisanofrpitt (big blind) showed [Ah Kd] and lost with a pair of Jacks
    Seat 5: jimbbobb showed [Ac As] and won ($106.35) with two pair, Aces and Jacks
    Seat 6: blufkingAAAA folded before Flop (didn't bet)

    I mean in this spot what other hands is he shoving with? Obviously I would never fold kk pre in a tourny of any kind but this just had to be AA.
  8. litlebullet litlebullet is offline

    Albuquerque, NM
    United States

    Posts: 614
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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 12:58pm) in reply to MYBLUEDOG

     
    Originally Posted by MYBLUEDOG View Post

    If you start folding KK, to most situations pre-flop or any situation pre-flop; you better keep it quiet. Otherwise you'll get run over.

    To make a legitimate fold pre-flop; you need significant history with the opponent and a good read that he/she has you beat. It's basically the same as folding AA, pre-flop because there are multiple all-in before you get to bet. AA/KK aren't always a significant favorite multi-way because they are only a pair and may be dodging lots of outs from other players. Those are rare occurrences.

    that's a horrible analogy sir. you welcome having aa against multiple opponents preflop because its like flipping a coin to be paid 3:1+ odds... the only reasons you can fold kk pre are for icm/ sat purposes or if you believe an opponent's range to be kk/aa.
  9. Charlamaigne Charlamaigne is offline

    South Lake Tahoe, CA
    United States

    Posts: 563
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    Nov 24th, 2009 (11/24/2009 1:06pm) in reply to litlebullet

    Never fold AA or KK pre unless you are deepstacked and reraised twice. Ugh Ive got a headache reading this
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