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An Edge is an Edge

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  1. THAY3R THAY3R is offline

    Posts: 748
    Joined: May 06

    Nov 19th, 2006 (11/19/2006 8:34pm)

    Many people are too scared to risk their "tournament life" even though by doing so they are killing their chances of winning a tournament. I think this conversation I recently had with my brother helps show my thought process when I have a big decision in an MTT Tournament.

    Thayer: he could easily have flush draw or 56 there
    Thayer: or maybe 43 or something
    Thayer: ya know
    Thayer: and getting over 4 to 1
    Brother: yea
    Brother: still say u had plenty of chipsleft to fold
    Brother: i mean its not a cash game
    Brother: its a tourney
    Thayer: horrible logic
    Thayer: an edge is an edge
    Brother: ?
    Thayer: someone flat pushes very first hand of a big tourney and has aks
    Thayer: im calling with qq
    Brother: well obv
    Brother: not like you fold qq but thats not really a comparison
    Thayer: why
    Thayer: im getting 5 to 1 on that call
    Thayer: if i fold i have 10k left
    Thayer: if i call lets say 25% of the time i have 50k in chips
    Thayer: 75% of the time im bust
    Thayer: you think i have a better than 25% chance that i can build my 10k into 50k?
    Thayer: if i fold?
    Thayer: if i go all in with ak v aq twice
    Thayer: to turn 10k into 20k and then into 40k
    Brother: true
    Thayer: thats 48%
    Brother: ok
    Thayer: so if im guarenteed to get it in dominating twice, which is obviously not anywhere close to a guarentee
    Thayer: then i have a less than 50% chance of turning that 10k into only 40k
    Thayer: let alone 50k
    Brother: ok
    Thayer: make sense though?
    Brother: yea

    Feel free to discuss/criticize.
    225 
  2. notashark notashark is offline

    Phuket
    Thailand

    Posts: 1,188
    Joined: Sep 06

    Nov 19th, 2006 (11/19/2006 8:36pm) in reply to THAY3R

    100 percent accurate
     1
  3. ENDSBAD4U ENDSBAD4U is offline

    Posts: 1,010
    Joined: Jan 06

    Nov 19th, 2006 (11/19/2006 8:43pm) in reply to THAY3R

    sounds good to me, I see you live in O-town... Im in Deltona... You looking for a protege? lol
  4. acecatcher26 acecatcher26 is offline

    AR
    United States

    Posts: 4,351
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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 3:25am) in reply to ENDSBAD4U

    Ok, how about this. If u know he has ak do u call with pkt twos??

    Edit: is this a read or do u know for sure he has ak?
  5. Albatross77 Albatross77 is offline

    Vernon, CT
    United States

    Posts: 401
    Joined: Jan 06

    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 4:49am) in reply to acecatcher26

    I think edges are overrated. If I need some chips, I'll gladly take the worst of it. Who cares if I'm 52% or 48%? I sure don't. If I need to play a big pot, then that's what I'm going to do. Then again, I'm terrible in MTTs and only have success in SNGs so perhaps I should tighten up and start worrying about "edges" instead of just flinging all my chips in the middle regardless of whether I'm slightly ahead or slightly behind.
     
  6. beanie beanie is offline

    Saint Paul, MN
    United States

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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 6:44am) in reply to Albatross77

    this type of discussion makes me happy. Also edge can be defined as getting the right price so even is you are a dog if percentages a call still may be justified.
  7. brsavage brsavage is offline Spontaneous Benefactor

    Denham Springs, LA
    United States

    Posts: 2,877
    Joined: Jan 05

    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 8:24am) in reply to THAY3R

    This is why I always raise huge when I have 4 high heads up against my opponent. I then can justify that I am getting the right price and have to call when he shoves.

    Seriously, this topic is dependant on the circumstances of the tournament. Are you at an early table with a lot of wild play? If there is donkalicious activity, why take a small edge if you are certain you can get your chips in with a larger edge? Is it late in a tournament and you have a huge skill advantage over your opponent? If so, why take a small edge?

    I think this is correct thinking depending on the circumstances.... more info needed as to the exact situation before you can answer the question.

    Monkey rules,

    Chris.
     1
  8. takeover_inc takeover_inc is offline

    Mason, TX
    United States

    Posts: 699
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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 11:06am) in reply to brsavage

    what chris is saying can be seen at the Foxwoods wpt even that nick shulman (gg spelling?). his villian was going crazy with the overbets and going all in. and then this hand shows up...nick has pocket 4's i think and the villian gets it all in...and nick folds. granted nick may of had a read that he was strong or something, but the fact is he layed down a small edge, but he more than made up for it later, how i am sure he thought he could. he got the villian to venture deeper in the hand, and see a flop with nick, where it seemed nick had more of an advantage. Then he gets all of the villans chips in when he is drawing.

    I am not saying pass up all coinflips. I take every one i think i am in, just because i am not good at mtt's. My thinking is if i win some coinflips, i will have some chips left if i make some donk move. but you need to think about more than just your edge on that particular hand.
  9. peterpjames peterpjames is offline

    Grand Forks, ND
    United States

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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 12:56pm) in reply to THAY3R

    Reminds me of Matt Matros' theory of doubling up article...now if you're able to run over your table without takign that risk and accumulate chips that's one thing, but so many online tourneys have you so short stacked the whole way that you don't have the time or stack size to do so, so pushing every edge, to me, seems to be key.
  10. rasools1fan rasools1fan is offline

    Canada

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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 1:24pm) in reply to acecatcher26

    AK suited is favoured over pkt twos.

    go run it on pokerstove.
  11. DuDuDier DuDuDier is offline

    United States

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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 1:29pm) in reply to THAY3R

    your brothers screenname is "brother?" ... thats awesome.

    i agree with your argument, an edge is an edge and you must recognize them and take advantage of them when they are present.

    DuDu
  12. Ulysses78 Ulysses78 is offline

    Chapel Hill, NC
    United States

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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 2:02pm) in reply to DuDuDier

    what if it's jacks???
  13. threeven threeven is offline

    Tucson, AZ
    United States

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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 2:09pm) in reply to rasools1fan

    WRONG

    Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

    10,273,824 games 0.156 secs 65,857,846 games/sec

    Board:
    Dead:

    equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
    Hand 1: 49.8933 % 49.57% 00.32% { AsKs }
    Hand 2: 50.1067 % 49.78% 00.32% { 22 }

    ---
    2
  14. tiltyjoker tiltyjoker is offline

    Asbury Park, NJ
    United States

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    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 2:26pm) in reply to Ulysses78

    What about if u think u are a 60/40 dog... and u think the guy would fold to a shove 30% of the time; arent u in one way or another the favorite the win hand.
     
  15. N 82 50 24 N 82 50 24 is offline herp derp derp

    Philadelphia, PA
    United States

    Posts: 8,601
    Joined: Jun 05

    Nov 20th, 2006 (11/20/2006 2:33pm) in reply to Ulysses78

    U,

    His brother's screen name is not jacks. It's clearly brother.
     
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