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End Game Advice

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  1. TheBingoCard TheBingoCard is offline

    Posts: 16
    Joined: Feb 09

    Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 10:30pm)

    Hello all, I cash in a ton of tournaments, and can final table/win tournies with about 500 people. When I play tournaments with more people I seem to be able to cash, but not get further. Is there a strategy I should have? Two prevailing strategies come to mind. 1) Steal as many chips as possible in good spots. Raise/ reraise with KJ and above, sometimes suited connectors. 2) Tighten up immensely. Play basically AK, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, unless I really know that I am good. Thanks
  2. TheBingoCard TheBingoCard is offline

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    Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 10:30pm) in reply to TheBingoCard

    It would probably help to give an example. Today in the UB/AP 200+15 I'm on the button with QK. The blinds are 500/1000 with antes and I have 25k chips. What am I supposed to do? SB has 50k and BB has 13k.
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  3. TheBingoCard TheBingoCard is offline

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    Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 10:51pm) in reply to TheBingoCard

    So this is what happens. I go all in with QK and BB calls with AK. I lose and now i have 12k chips. Now I am in shoving mode instead of playing poker mode. With a 25k stack is it worth trying to steal the 3k or should I wait for a spot where if I get called I am probably ahead? Personally, I think this play is just unlucky. But with that kind of stack, I have this nagging feeling that I should be waiting for a great spot. What do you all think?
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  4. russor22 russor22 is offline

    Revere, MA
    United States

    Posts: 68
    Joined: Oct 07

    Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 11:27pm) in reply to TheBingoCard

    I think shoving right off the bat w/ KQ was a little premature. A standard raise should've done it. Would you have called a shove from the 13K stack? That's the only question. Depending on the antes your M was around 15 so your not exactly desperate. Another factor would be if the two blinds were calling stations but...
  5. TheBingoCard TheBingoCard is offline

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    Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 11:36pm) in reply to russor22

    I agree that I shouldn't have gone all in. But when he reraises, am I supposed to lay down QK?
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  6. russor22 russor22 is offline

    Revere, MA
    United States

    Posts: 68
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    Jun 29th, 2009 (6/29/2009 12:07am) in reply to TheBingoCard

    Thats the question, depending if he tended to gamble from previous showdowns id probably call. Then again id rather have an ace i think. What you think?...you look like your doing pretty well
  7. kinheim kinheim is offline

    Netherlands

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    Jun 29th, 2009 (6/29/2009 4:54am) in reply to TheBingoCard

    hey bcard,

    I think i have the same ( problem ), i just think variance has a lot to do with it. Playing tournaments with a lot of ppl makes for huge swings. Im also much better in 300-500 ppl tournaments, maybe it has something to do with concentration span.

    Just keep playing solid tournament poker and the results will come.

    On the qk hand i whould just raise a standard amount because this way you are able to steal blinds without going all in preflop for 20 bb. You give them a chance to hang them selve when you are strong en fold with a smal risk when you are weak.

    kinheim
  8. russor22 russor22 is offline

    Revere, MA
    United States

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    Jun 29th, 2009 (6/29/2009 6:59pm) in reply to kinheim

    Kinheim would you call a shove with KQ from either stack? If so, why or why not.
  9. DutchCourage DutchCourage is offline

    Amsterdam
    Netherlands

    Posts: 512
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    Jun 30th, 2009 (6/30/2009 4:45am) in reply to russor22

     
    Originally Posted by russor22 View Post

    Kinheim would you call a shove with KQ from either stack? If so, why or why not.

    Read dependent imo. I was in a similar situation, KQ on the button, short stack in SB, average stack on BB. I raise standard (something like 3x bb), SB instapushes. I thought about it for a while and came to the conclusion that he has either:
    1) AK, AQ - I'm a big dog
    2) AJ, AT, possibly A9 - I'm about 30% to win
    3) Small/medium PP - coinflip/small underdog
    4) Bluff - i'm favourite

    Note that I'm leaving QQ+ out of the options as I don't think he would have pushed that kind of hand (there was still room for a "normal" 3-bet)

    Since I had been playing relatively loose (for my standards anyway) I put a relatively large weight on (4). Against (1) - (3) I am roughly 40% to win (pokerstoved it), which in this case means that - with the money in the pot - even if there is no chance he is bluffing pot odds dictate a call.
    Of course I did not do the exact calculations during the hand itself, but roughly evaluated it in my head - and called. Villain turns over KT, catches a 10 on the river and I lose 35% of my stack, but hey: my read was correct. And I was proud to have made such progress in my thought process

    Hope this helps, gl at the tables.
  10. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
    United States

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    Jul 1st, 2009 (7/1/2009 5:32pm) in reply to TheBingoCard

    Problem with poker is that there are no hard and fast rules. Once antes hit, any size tournament, I would say that you would be better off being more agressive. You don't want to just sit around for big hands. Of course, if your playing a game where you will get called with your big hands, then I'd wait.

    On your KQ spot, that's a bit of a cooler. You are in a steal spot, and KQ is too good to do anything other than raise. Once you raise, if 13k goes all in, you pretty much have to call, and then you lose. I know you pushed it, and that's a bit too agressive, but it plays out the same way.

    As another hit on, a ton is just variance. With more people, you need more things to go right to get deep. Instead of winning 3 flips, you need to win 6-7. So, it's going to happen less often. But, I think the same strategies play, you just have a much longer middle part of the tournament to negotiate through.
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