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EPT turn spot with set and ~PSB behind

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  1. firaldo firaldo is offline

    United Kingdom

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    Joined: May 09

    Apr 9th, 2011 (4/9/2011 1:40am)

    This hand happens at 100/200 no ante - we've chipped up to like 34k from 30k in the first couple of hours and haven't really played any big pots. We've been reasonably active but not overly so.

    Villain is an older guy who had been limping a dec amount but also opening to 3/3.5x some of the time too. We've played one pot with him where we isoed his limp pre w A7dd and took it down with 2 barrels on 5T5dd4x

    Ok, so action goes;

    Older guy limps for 200 from EP, we make it 800 with black TT from HJ, some splashy polish livepro flats the sb.

    Older guy then makes it 2800 with like 32k behind.

    We flat (thoughts? Im like 99.9% sure polish guy will flat too and also pretty sure that older guy has a premium - its a pure setmine, im folding 223 flops etc)

    Polish guy flats.

    Flop comes JT3r, polish guy checks, older guy leads 3.5k w/o too much thought. We make it 11,200 with like 20ish behind if my math at 2am/my memory is correct, he flats after around 30secs.

    Turn is a rainbow K, he snap checks, we.. ?

    I feel like he has AA/KK like always and im not honestly sure he doesnt find a 'hero' fold ott w AA some % of the time if we pile as the board is now kinda "scary" (like the K basically affects none of our range but probs seems like a bad card for AA from his point of view)

    Is it realistic to do anything apart from get this in? Am i just being a results oriented clown? (not to spoil results but its pretty obv whats going to happen lol)

    thanks
    394 
  2. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Apr 9th, 2011 (4/9/2011 5:04am) in reply to firaldo

    I'm pretty sure in spots like this live where you have his range absolutely pigeon holed to kk aa its ok the chk back turn. And make a live read on river..also i dont make it so big on turn either. Ive found that even old guys can fold KK AA if you raise too big. Id prlly make it around 8.5ish. If he snap piles the river I think its safe to say he prlly has KK..if he chks put it in.. doubt shoving turn can be too bad tho
     11
  3. tom44411 tom44411 is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

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    Apr 10th, 2011 (4/10/2011 9:10am) in reply to gutshtallin

    i agree with gtsht pretty much i mean like there arent many bluffs in his range so checking back just pot controls your set and if he c/r river i think you puke fold imo

    ps im extremely drunk right now but its my 2 cents
     
  4. apestyles apestyles is offline Moderator

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    Apr 11th, 2011 (4/11/2011 9:50pm) in reply to gutshtallin

     
    Originally Posted by gutshtallin View Post

    I'm pretty sure in spots like this live where you have his range absolutely pigeon holed to kk aa its ok the chk back turn. And make a live read on river..also i dont make it so big on turn either. Ive found that even old guys can fold KK AA if you raise too big. Id prlly make it around 8.5ish. If he snap piles the river I think its safe to say he prlly has KK..if he chks put it in.. doubt shoving turn can be too bad tho


    Not much to add other than I agree with all of this (except you meant raise smaller flop right). In gametime, I can't name a time I've folded a set in a re-raised pot without a 4 straight or 4 flush on the board which probably means I haven't... I can name a few times where I've wanted to and haven't though. Hopefully someday I will be a complete enough player and disciplined enough to fold when I have someone's range so pigeonholed, but I have a multitablers mentality in some of these spots where I probably shouldn't - especially live where there is more information - online you really shouldn't be folding sets in reraised pots almost ever. Anyway, checking back turn based on the info you have has to be best right - for getting more info and also extracting value from AA. But yea, like Ryan said, getting it in with a set in a re-raised pot just can't be bad.
    Edited By: apestyles Apr 11th, 2011 at 09:53 PM
     282 12 

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  5. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Apr 12th, 2011 (4/12/2011 12:28am) in reply to apestyles

    Yea, I meant raise smaller on the flop..not the turn.
     11
  6. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Apr 12th, 2011 (4/12/2011 12:52am) in reply to gutshtallin

    i mean, if he always has KK and AA and is never folding the turn, then u can pretty happily just jam


    edit: also, when people limp/raise like that...i feel like their range is weighted more towards AA anyway
    Edited By: Gags30 Apr 12th, 2011 at 12:53 AM
    170 2 

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  7. The Caretaker The Caretaker is offline

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    Apr 13th, 2011 (4/13/2011 8:44am) in reply to Gags30

    he could def have ak imo old men live tend to be extremely stubborn at least in my experience, you have a set man gg
     
  8. firaldo firaldo is offline

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    Apr 14th, 2011 (4/14/2011 3:12pm) in reply to The Caretaker

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    i mean, if he always has KK and AA and is never folding the turn, then u can pretty happily just jam


    edit: also, when people limp/raise like that...i feel like their range is weighted more towards AA anyway

    Yeah I agree, problem is I think he poss finds a fold w AA on this texture (JT3K). If it was like T52K then vamoo etc, he's never finding it and obv more AA than KK combos etc.


     
    Originally Posted by gutshtallin View Post

    I'm pretty sure in spots like this live where you have his range absolutely pigeon holed to kk aa its ok the chk back turn. And make a live read on river..also i dont make it so big on turn either. Ive found that even old guys can fold KK AA if you raise too big. Id prlly make it around 8.5ish. If he snap piles the river I think its safe to say he prlly has KK..if he chks put it in.. doubt shoving turn can be too bad tho

    Really like this, ty, Fwiw the reason i made it so big on the flop is i felt he was never folding an overpair and I wanted to try get it in by the turn cos I felt on JT3 there were a few ways the board could run out by the rvi that would kill my action - idk if thats good logic/really matters?
    394 
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  9. Sbervo Sbervo is offline

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    May 6th, 2011 (5/6/2011 9:39pm) in reply to firaldo

    with the stack sizes and his relatively faceup AA i like a 2.4xish flop raise to about 8200, as i think it at least ensures a call from overpairs, which we can almost certainly get value from on later streets. It also allows him to consider peeling with AK/AQ, and every blue moon he might rip it in with AK/AQ if he is fed up with us and decides we cant have it every time.
    Also a smaller raise could in his eyes appear like a raise (for whatever reason) with an AJ type of hand (just because he might raise this flop with AJ doesnt mean i think you ever are), and maybe he just rips in AA or KK over your "information raise"
    *you do look somewhat committed to the hand with your sizing here, but since its live vs a dino i dont really mind it, sometimes you are like 90% they are at least peeling the flop, so why not tax him like you did to 11kish?
    against a competent player you need to be able to balance, which is tough with your sizing, but considering the live read it seems std.
    A turn shove seems standard, but at a particularly weak table and with a good structure i would consider checking back and assessing on the river in position, and maybe find a hero fold if i am overwhelmingly convinced 1) i am beat 2) i am still a threat with ~20k at this point in this particular tournament
    Edited By: Sbervo May 6th, 2011 at 09:40 PM
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