Background: I had a big stack (little more then 2* the average); blinds are 1600--thanks todd--and I had been at the table for maybe 15 hands. the table seemed pre flop passive, with some pretty crazy action on some so-so hands post flop.

I had just lost a pretty big pot to villian about 5 hands ago on a check raise bluff--which he called and then I gave the hand up--but he did flash his cards and the turn had given him a set (bad timing on a check raise bluff).

Game #1391252095 - Tournament Riptide $5K - 800/1,600 No Limit Texas Hold'em -
2006/04/03-02:04:33.7 (CST)
Table "Riptide $5K 9" (MTT) -- Seat 7 is the button
Seat 1: Chefbet (850 in chips)
Seat 2: Ozaki A (23,210 in chips)
Seat 3: itsthepizza (12,485 in chips)
Seat 4: rer1022 (25,315 in chips)
Seat 5: timzc1 (53,200 in chips)------------me--------------
Seat 6: 1Doughboy (92,550 in chips)--------------villian---------
Seat 7: Hjerterkonge (16,424 in chips)
Seat 8: Double222 (17,726 in chips)
Seat 9: hookey A's (17,910 in chips)
Seat 10: HairMetalMan (5,115 in chips)
Ozaki A : Ante (80)
itsthepizza: Ante (80)
rer1022 : Ante (80)
timzc1 : Ante (80)
1Doughboy: Ante (80)
Hjerterkonge: Ante (80)
Double222: Ante (80)
hookey A's: Ante (80)
HairMetalMan: Ante (80)
Chefbet : Ante (80)
Double222: Post Small Blind (800)
hookey A's: Post Big Blind (1,600)
Dealing...
Dealt to timzc1 [ Qh ]
Dealt to timzc1 [ Tc ]
HairMetalMan: Fold
Chefbet : Fold
1Doughboy said, "thx"
Ozaki A : Fold
itsthepizza: Fold
rer1022 : Fold
timzc1 : Call (1,600)------------limp, sure--------------
1Doughboy: Call (1,600)
Hjerterkonge: Fold
Double222: Call (800)
hookey A's: Check
*** FLOP *** : [ 7s Td 3d ]
Double222: Check
hookey A's: Check
timzc1 : Bet (1,600)--------take a little stab, see if I can get some action from some short stacks, or maybe just take down a little pot...----------------
1Doughboy: Call (1,600)
Double222: Call (1,600)
hookey A's: Fold
*** TURN *** : [ 7s Td 3d ] [ Ts ] --------bingo! ------------
Double222: Check
timzc1 : Bet (5,500)
1Doughboy: Raise (20,000)
Double222: Fold
timzc1 : Raise (44,420)
1Doughboy: Call (29,920)
*** RIVER *** : [ 7s Td 3d Ts ] [ Js ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 111,840 | Board: [ 7s Td 3d Ts Js ]
Chefbet lost 80 (folded)
Ozaki A lost 80 (folded)
itsthepizza lost 80 (folded)
rer1022 lost 80 (folded)
timzc1 lost 53,200 (showed hand) [ Qh Tc ] (three of a kind, tens)
1Doughboy bet 53,200, collected 111,840, net +58,640 (showed hand) [ Th Ah ]
(three of a kind, tens)
Hjerterkonge lost 80 (folded)
Double222 lost 3,280 (folded)
hookey A's lost 1,680 (folded)
HairMetalMan lost 80 (folded)

the LIMP with a10 is a BIT strange for a big stack in a 2$ rebuy (considering the levels are 10 min, a10 is a reasonable hand to try to iscolate a short stack with....)

the pat call with top pair top kicker, and with a possible dia draw -- v v v v weird - - -

and then the turn sealed my fate. hard to get away from top set, reasonable kicker.

any comments?

-------tim c

my thoughts were:

1. he had a dia flush and was eff-ing with me, using his table image to try to bully me off a hand; also, he knows I am willing to lay down if I have over played a hand and / or hav bluffed.

2. he might have been slow-playing an over pair on the flop, thinking he'd get a chance to out play me later on in the hand, as my pre-flop and flop play was weak.

3. he had a 10 with a bad kicker (10j or 109 come to mind).

4. he had slow played a set and I was dead.

I really though 1 (and even 2) were distinct possibilities (combined odds = 50-60% I thought?). I also thought 3 was a small possibility. (another 10-20 %)

4. was what i was really worried about--but I figured o well doomed hand. (the remaining 20-40%).

but, I also figured: if I win, I'll have a v big stack and not need many cards at all to get to the final 3 tables, easy.

thanks for in put... any 1 else?

--tc

I would say first of all, this late in a tourney don't limp pre-flop with marginal hands. First of all, if any decent player behind you notices this, you will just be giving them free chips, as they will raise you all day. Just fold your QT PF or raise (I would recommend folding, because any caller probably has you crushed).

Now, the flop. The bet is fine, and his call was unusual, although I can understand it (he probably doesn't want to get involved in a big pot with you because you can hurt his stack, and if you are on the draw he can fold if it hits or bet you off it on the turn).

On the turn, I think you forgot one important thing: assuming this guy is a decent player, which it seems like he is, he pretty much has to give you credit for a hand at this point, especially considering your earlier unsuccessful bluff. So, he probably thinks that you are going to call. Given this info, I would eliminate the possibility of a diamond draw - if he wasn't going to semi-bluff the flop with two cards to come, it would be retarded to semi-bluff on the turn with a draw that may already be dead. Which leads to the conclusion that he must think his hand is good, so I would say his most likely holdings are : T-x (you are beating some of these), or a made full house. Which doesn't make your situation much easier, although I would say that since A) he can bust you, and B) He seems like a solid player who (from the two examples I have) hasn't gotten out of line, you might be able to find a fold here.

Only read the origianl post here, but here's what I think.

<span>1st Decision: Limp in with QTo
</span>Personally, I think this is your absolute biggest mistake. It's folded around to you so there are only 2 reasons to even enter the pot. 1st reason is that you expect to take it down, in which case you want to raise pre showing you want this hand, 2nd reason is you want to bluff the hand in which case you also want to raise showing strength. Or you could just fold. I see no reason to limp with a medium-weak hand as first to act.

<span>2nd Decision: Take a stab at the pot</span>
Your little "Stab" was much much too little. If you get called you still have almost no information on your opponent. He could be calling with any pair, a draw, maybe even two big cards, and overpair, etc...you just don't know with such a little bet.

<span>3rd Decision: Assuming the hand is yours and trying to get chips in
</span>Due to not gaining any information on the flop, your opponent could have easily had 2 pr with a ten, a bigger ten, etc.. Now you bet this turn with your trips saying, "Ok I have my hand". Then you get raised an amount that says he want's as many of your chips as he can get showing that he is VERY confident in his hand. You may just be smart to call him down at this point as you can't really be sure what he has or if your good. Although at this point you probably end up going broke anyway.

Personally I say you should have played the hand WAY differently all the way through, and these are my thoughts.

You are in late position with a very very nice stack, why are you limping with this hand? FIRST MISTAKE. You should have raised it up to 4800.

Flop, the pot is 6400 and there is a 2 flush on the board and you bet 1600 giving 4 to 1 to any flush draws, oh, but as soon as your first caller calls that goes up to 5 to 1. SECOND MISTAKE You need to protect your hand and get rid of any flush draws. Do you think that the big stack is going to fold to your weak bet? What do you do when he comes over the top of you for the pot? Does he have a bettter T than you, or is he just responding to your weakness?

You are involved in a hand with the one stack that can bust you at a table of short stacks. THIRD MISTAKE

When you are reraised 4x by the largest stack at your table that can take you out, unless you have the nuts, which you don't, AT, KT, 77, 33 then you fold. FOURTH MISTAKE When he reraises you after the 2nd 10 hits what hand did you think he had? He told you very loudly that you are beat, you just refused to see what someone else could possibly have because you were just staring at your 3 of a kind.

Your mistake was not looking beyond your own cards. Top set, reasonable kicker, unless you are up against very reasonable hands stated above, which is very very possible.

YOU should go out of your way to stay out of pots with the Big stack, especially if he is playing at you hard. He doesn't want to lose his stack to someone else that has a big stack either. You should have recognized that he had you beat and let it go. Calling the huge reraise was just bad. Learn to lay down 5th best hand.

I think that you are right to occasionally try limping and hoping to flop big at a table like the one you describe. However, QTo is exactly the kind of hand you do not want to be doing this with. Think about it - what are other people limping with? some PPs, and a lot of broadway cards, and ALMOST ALL Broadway cards have you dominated. Better to limp with suited connectors or even absolute trash than QT IMO; your cards have a much greater chance of being live.

thanks for addressing the particular issue that I wanted raised.

I play a lot of MTTs and know limping with q10 is not typical; in fact I know that--in general--it is not good poker.

bu re: the particualr situation as I saw it at my table:

the advice is good: if I the situation of the sort comes up again, limp with garbage like 34s and maybe 810 s and 33 -- but not q10. lower odds 34s connects but when it does the odds of being counterfeited (no, I am not going to look the spelling of that word up) are much smaller then playing e.g. q10o.

--ty ty ty