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Ethical Staking Question

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  1. sp227 sp227 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 12:55pm)

    I am staked in the $1k Wynn Classic tournament for this Thursday. The deal is standard. Prize money 50/50 less the buyin. Now I was just approached by another friend wanting a piece of me in that came tournament. I'd like some feedback as to whether or not people here think it is ok or not ok to sell off some of my 50% of the deal?
  2. B4TheFlop B4TheFlop is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 1:06pm) in reply to sp227

    I don't understand how you would be selling off 50% of you, i mean i understand it, but lets say he gives you 100 for 10%, you are now collecting 1100 for a 1000 tourney and now you are getting in to that whole moral situation like I think Eskimo used to do... collecting more than what the buy in is and possibly purposely losing? Not that you would... but thats just what it can look like...
  3. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 1:16pm) in reply to sp227

    I would take it up with your backer if you really want to make a side deal. I suppose there's nothing brutally wrong with you selling a piece of your 50%...but I wouldn't want your backer hearing about it from anyone else and misunderstanding whatever arrangement you want to make.
     
  4. sp227 sp227 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 1:31pm) in reply to B4TheFlop

    No the deal would be for me to take $100, and make it almost like a restake of my 50%. So in fact for his $100 he'd be getting 5% and I would take that number off of my cut if I cash. Does this help?
    Thread Starter
  5. HammerG HammerG is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 1:32pm) in reply to grapsfan

    tell him to stake you in another tourney.Are you not confident enough that you want to sell off parts of your remaining 50%?

    If i was backing you i want you to have incentive to win. why would i want you to be playing for 10-30% . thats not that great of an incentive.

    he can put up some money in the next tourney or something.
  6. B4TheFlop B4TheFlop is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 1:42pm) in reply to sp227

    I don't understand why he would give you 10% of the buy in for 5% of the prize money
  7. northstar575 northstar575 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 1:45pm) in reply to sp227

    If you are fully backed already I don't see why you would want to sell more of yourself, you'll just be cutting into your profits.
  8. Rocket Surgeon Rocket Surgeon is offline & brain scientist

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 1:49pm) in reply to sp227

    Wait, if you are staked already, why would you want to sell off more of yourself? It seems like you are only cutting into your own profits. Care to elaborate on what the deal you have now is, and what kind of deal you are looking to make, because this makes no sense right now (unless you just want to collect the extra 'buy in' money that the second person would be giving)?
  9. MonkeyCowboy MonkeyCowboy is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 1:50pm) in reply to sp227

    This is no different than selling stock in a company. You still have 50% to do with what you please,

    I do however agree with graps in that you should tell your orginal backer.

    Just don't pull a Mel Brooks and sell 1000% and WIN.
  10. Hughester Hughester is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 2:05pm) in reply to sp227

    I think the OP is confused about how staking works. If you're already being staked for 100% of the buy-in you can't really be staked anymore than that, unless people are going to pay you a fee upfront and then get a certain percentage of your profits if you cash...which doesn't really make sense.

    I think you're confused between when players sell off certain percentages of themselves to different people. For example, if your original staker gave you $500 and you were going to put up the other $500, then you could presumably take on another staker for that $500 you're responsible for.

    As it stands, if you're already being staked 100% so you have nothing to sell off. Am I wrong here?

    Edit: Just realized you didn't state you were staked 100%, so if that's not the case and you're still putting up some of the buy-in, then you can still be staked for part of it.
  11. SeizeTheCarp SeizeTheCarp is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 2:46pm) in reply to B4TheFlop

    Because you get half the amount you stake... Stake %100-get %50... Stake %10-get %5
  12. MonkeyCowboy MonkeyCowboy is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 2:47pm) in reply to Hughester

    Well I think that is his exact question.

    I understand what you are saying but it is still like a hedge, as long as you don't sell more than 100% you are ok.
  13. SeizeTheCarp SeizeTheCarp is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 2:53pm) in reply to Hughester

    He is staked %100 percent of the BUY IN, but the backer is not getting %100 of the profits (only %50). However, the only reason you would want to sell part of that left over %50 is if you are not conifident in cashing.

    The other reason you could sell %5 for $100 dollars would be if you consider that %5 of the buy in worth more than a cash. Even if he barely makes the bubble this probably isn't true, so again, the only reason would be if you are planning on falling short.

    I am not saying OP has this intent, but the only motivation in taking the second stake would be if you thought you weren't going to cash... I guess the wildcard could be that he wants to help his friend out.
  14. Ship Happens Ship Happens is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 3:04pm) in reply to SeizeTheCarp

    OP needs to sell pieces of himself to as many ppl as possible. Sell like 500% of yourself and your already a big winner as long as you dont cash. Just dont let anyone find out lol
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  15. supermoves supermoves is offline invented poker

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 3:16pm) in reply to sp227

    You can do whatever you want with your 50%, its yours. However, like graps said, you might want to at least tell your backer about it, so he doesnt think you were trying to pull anything shady on him. Just let him know you'll be making some side deals for your 50%, so if he hears anything, not to worry.
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  16. rrizgod rrizgod is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 3:17pm) in reply to SeizeTheCarp

    thats retarded logic.

    If he pays for 10% of the buy in the percentages should now be 50-40-10 minus the buy in.
  17. IMAFISH4U IMAFISH4U is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 3:25pm) in reply to supermoves

    There are no set rules to stacking you can do it however you want. But you should make sure everyone involved is comfortable with the situation. MAke sure both stakers know exactly whats going on and what % of you is theres. is te 2nd stacker getting 5% of your cash before or after the 1k was stacked back to your other backer. basically its an easy math formula to make sure everyone doesnt get f'd but it could be easily srewed up to f'k someone out of money.
  18. sp227 sp227 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 4:12pm) in reply to IMAFISH4U

    Thanks for everyones input on the topic. I'm very aware of how staking works, and I would never sell more of myself than pieces possible. Let's look at an example of how this would work. Guy A gives me $1,060 to play in the tournament with a stipulation that I give him $1,060 back plus half of whatever I cash for minus the buyin. Guy B gives me $106 to play with a stipulation that he gets $106 back plus 5% (half of 10%) of whatever I cash for minus the buyin.

    Scenario A: I do not cash, and Guy A and Guy B lose out on their investment, but I make $106

    Scenario B: I barely cash for say $2,000. Guy A gets back $1,530 ((($2,000 - $1,060) * .50) + $1,060) Guy B gets back $153 (($2,000 - $1,060) * .05) + $106) I get the rest $317

    Scenario C: I have a major cash for $50,000. Guy A gets back $25,530 ((($50,000 - $1,060) * .50) + $1,060) Guy B gets back $2,553 (($50,000 - $1,060) * .05) + $106) I get the rest $21,917

    This is how the math would work, but correct me if I am wrong. Now the other question is if i plan on giving 100% effort regardless of how much I am staked in a tournament, is it a good move to take on the extra stake or not? I do not plan on doing more than this $106 piece. I guess it depends on how likely I think I am to cash and/or final table. Any more thoughts on it?
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  19. B4TheFlop B4TheFlop is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 4:22pm) in reply to sp227

    Scenario D - You cash for exactly $1060 (i don't know if this is possible, but lets say you are first one out after the cash and you get just your buy in back) Guy A gets 1060? Guy B gets fucked? You are out of pocket now 106? How would you do this....
  20. ariel_n10 ariel_n10 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 4:34pm) in reply to B4TheFlop

    Has anyone seen The Producers - by Mel Brooks.
    Basically, you get staked 100% by say 20 people, don't let them know.
    Take a dive intentionnally and lose the buy-in, while keeping the other 19 buy-ins for yourself.

    :-)
  21. Rocket Surgeon Rocket Surgeon is offline & brain scientist

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 4:44pm) in reply to sp227

    Why even go through the hastle of setting all of this up for 100 bucks? Just seems like much more trouble than it's worth. You are already staked 100%, so just go and play and have fun. Don't worry about trying to make an extra 100 bucks incase you don't cash, because that's the <span>ONLY</span> benefit of doing this deal, and it's not a large benefit at all.
  22. sp227 sp227 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 4:49pm) in reply to Rocket Surgeon

    Agreed. I was just trying to accomadate a friend's request to have a piece of me that's all. Either way I am content. Just wanted some feedback on the issue concerning multiple stakes, thanks
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  23. sp227 sp227 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 4:56pm) in reply to B4TheFlop

    Yes I would pay out the $106. But so far at the Wynn Classic the first payed spot is double the entry fee. But yes I would take responsibility for it if that were not the case. I'm not looking to f*ck anyone here, just accomodate a friend's request
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  24. B4TheFlop B4TheFlop is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 5:00pm) in reply to sp227

    i didn't mean to imply that you were, i definitely don't think you were trying to do anything shady at all, i was just stating another problem that could arise. Sorry if it came off that way. Anyways, godspeed young grasshopper, hope all goes well, and good luck in the tourney.
  25. bustarimes bustarimes is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 5:07pm) in reply to sp227

    so would your new deal be with your friends extra $100 to take $900 from the first guy then, $100 from the 2nd friend, and keep the 50-50 minus costs stake deal for eac of them???
     
  26. Enigma1157 Enigma1157 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 5:16pm) in reply to MonkeyCowboy

    Mel Brooks !! lol.......I had the SAME thought....do like 'The Producers' and sell 5,000 % of your stake and then just lose on purpose.....easy money...just DON'T accidentally win the whole thing like Jamie Gold did.....all in with rags and constantly flop the nuts.......
  27. Banned1 Banned1 is offline

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    Feb 27th, 2007 (2/27/2007 5:20pm) in reply to sp227

    Love it!! Have you ever seen "The Producers"? Go for it, sell 20,000 % and just make sure you loose!
  28. SeizeTheCarp SeizeTheCarp is offline

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    Feb 28th, 2007 (2/28/2007 9:21am) in reply to rrizgod

    Why would he get all of the percentage that he staked when the original staker gets half... What I said was to remain consistent
  29. SeizeTheCarp SeizeTheCarp is offline

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    Feb 28th, 2007 (2/28/2007 9:26am) in reply to Ship Happens

    Legitimately, you could sell %200 and if you cash you give all of it away. Otherwise, you would make money money without even playing if you didn't want to
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