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Is this ever a good play?? (Bubble of $60 turbo sng)flaming is allowed

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  1. cmkpics cmkpics is offline

    Montgomery, AL
    United States

    Posts: 3,558
    Joined: Nov 06

    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:07am)

    a little note on this particular sng..
    pareshjain went all in on my blind everytime..
    i caught him once but got rivered..
    i know i am second in chips and bubbling but the blinds have really escalated..
    technically i am supposed to wait and fold here.

    but is there a time when this is a good play??

    pokerstars Game #11120922362: Tournament #56402904, $55+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2007/07/24 - 23:59:25 (ET)
    Table '56402904 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: poker_in_pb (1425 in chips)
    Seat 3: pareshjain (5360 in chips)
    Seat 8: myhucklebery (4100 in chips)
    Seat 9: mrsmontal (2615 in chips)
    poker_in_pb: posts the ante 50
    pareshjain: posts the ante 50
    myhucklebery: posts the ante 50
    mrsmontal: posts the ante 50
    pareshjain: posts small blind 300
    myhucklebery: posts big blind 600
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to myhucklebery [Kc Tc]
    mrsmontal: folds
    myhucklebery said, "thats ok"
    myhucklebery said, "keep picking on my blind"
    poker_in_pb: folds
    pareshjain: raises 4710 to 5310 and is all-in
    myhucklebery: calls 3450 and is all-in
    *** FLOP *** [2c 4d 5d]
    myhucklebery said, "hold"
    pareshjain said, "omg"
    pareshjain said, "omg"
    *** TURN *** [2c 4d 5d] [Qc]
    pareshjain said, "omg"
    *** RIVER *** [2c 4d 5d Qc] [5h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    pareshjain: shows [Jd 9s] (a pair of Fives)
    myhucklebery: shows [Kc Tc] (a pair of Fives - King kicker)
    pareshjain said, "hilarious call"
    myhucklebery collected 8300 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 8300 | Rake 0
    Board [2c 4d 5d Qc 5h]
    Seat 1: poker_in_pb (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: pareshjain (small blind) showed [Jd 9s] and lost with a pair of Fives
    Seat 8: myhucklebery (big blind) showed [Kc Tc] and won (8300) with a pair of Fives
    Seat 9: mrsmontal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  2. FishOnTilt FishOnTilt is offline

    Sioux City, IA
    United States

    Posts: 3,279
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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:11am) in reply to cmkpics

    i hate this call theres a thing called ICM( i dont know how to calculate it) but its basically u being unable to call on the bubble against the other chip leader with 2 shortstacks although u may know u have the best hand it sucks but u gotta fold.
     
  3. charbarj41 charbarj41 is offline

    Fort Wayne, IN
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:12am) in reply to cmkpics

    is this ever a good play? no
     
  4. sandler1860 sandler1860 is offline

    Dayton, OH
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:15am) in reply to cmkpics

    This is awful. NH though :D
     
  5. DoubleS00ted DoubleS00ted is offline

    PR
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:48am) in reply to cmkpics

    awful call.
  6. EyeKnows EyeKnows is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 1:47am) in reply to cmkpics

    No, no, no...bad dog, bad dog.

    edit: just saw the chat...lmao, it's still bad but it musta been sweet as hell.
  7. cashtorg cashtorg is offline

    Granby, CT
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 1:52am) in reply to cmkpics

    cant really tell if all these posts are jokes
     
  8. RiverRejas RiverRejas is offline

    Burke, VA
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 1:53am) in reply to cashtorg

    ^^^ rofl. but yea... terrible call.
  9. Stupor_Mundi Stupor_Mundi is online now

    Silver Spring, MD
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 1:54am) in reply to cmkpics

    Good read, bad call, you get sucked out on enough here to reduce your payout in the long run.
  10. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 2:03am) in reply to cmkpics

    I think (correct me if I am wrong) you felt helpless against a guy shoving you all of the time, and felt that you might have to take a stand sometime and now was as good as any,

    There is a correct defense to this, but instead it involves pushing first. Especially in poker in pb's blind. Kill the shortstack, and the dynamic where you have to fold every hand in your BB is gone!
  11. cashtorg cashtorg is offline

    Granby, CT
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 2:50am) in reply to cmkpics

    lol i didnt see this was a stt with 4 players left...yes fold that shit
     
  12. Entmd8tr Entmd8tr is offline

    Jackson, MS
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 9:58am) in reply to cashtorg

    YES VERY BAD CALL...but of course you wont respect my opinion because you dont like the way i play...but you made a few of these bad calls against me yesterday also.....you made the comment yesterday that i had my share of suckouts against you yesterday but in all honesty i only had 1 i believe you called off your chips against me with the worst hand 4 times and sucked out all 4 times yesterday
  13. Neek Neek is offline

    Boca Raton, FL
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 10:03am) in reply to cmkpics

    This is terrible, this call. Don't get all upset and take his shoves personally. He's the big stack, you are on the bubble. He obviously understands ICM and knows that it should take a very big hand from you to call. You obviously don't.
     
  14. Entmd8tr Entmd8tr is offline

    Jackson, MS
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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 10:06am) in reply to Neek

    i played several of these turbos with myhuckleberry yesterday and he does left the shoves on him get to him....he takes it personal and ends up calling in spots where he definately shouldnt....
  15. Sane Man Sane Man is offline

    Orwigsburg, PA
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 10:09am) in reply to cmkpics

    I'll be the first one to say it. I think this was a good call. Now with over 8k to everyones 2k, you shove blind every hand until someone doubles or the bubble breaks.
  16. Neek Neek is offline

    Boca Raton, FL
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 10:11am) in reply to Entmd8tr

    Yeah that's bad. The big stack should be shoving on you with nearly any two.
     
  17. Entmd8tr Entmd8tr is offline

    Jackson, MS
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 10:18am) in reply to Sane Man

    a call here is terrible sane can you not see why?? he calls off all his chips on the bubble vs the only guy that can bust him when there is one player with only 1425 chips at the 300/600 level....there is no excuse for a call here with anything other than aa or kk....this is just terrible
  18. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 10:57am) in reply to cmkpics

    This is a horrible call. But, I'll go further, say he was able to flip over and show you 2-3 offsuit (the worst HU hand you can have), you would still fold here. It is basically to ICM. But, you can rationally think this one through too.

    First, say you win the hand. At best, you are hoping to win this hand 2/3 of the time. You are in great shape as the chip leader, but you aren't guaranteed to win either (one bad beat and you are tied with someone for the most part). If you lose here, you are out in fourth and you get nothing.

    If you fold here, you are practically guaranteed the money, and you are likely going to get second, and you still have a shot for fourth.

    The payout structure in SNG"s (50-30-20) really forces you to think about getting into the money first, and then going from there. In a MTT, it's worth bubbling to give yourself a better chance to win, in SNG's it is not (it's a 3 buy in difference as opposed to 100's).

    In this spot, you have to seriously consider folding KK, about the only hand you play is AA.

    Easy fold, and you should do it 100% of the time. He is right to push on you, and you are right to fold to it, even though both of you know that he has nothing.
  19. lane1300 lane1300 is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 11:18am) in reply to lordxixor101

    uhhh so many times the short stack doubles up and being 2nd in chips gets

    fked cause 3-4 chip stacks get back in the hunt.

    if you think you were ahead its not a bad call.
  20. Scurvydog00 Scurvydog00 is offline

    Pomona, CA
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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:11pm) in reply to cmkpics

    I could be wrong here, i'm not a big ICM guy. But I thought this was a fine call. pareshjains range has been established as ATC making our KTo a 60% favorite vs. a random hand. Fourty % of the time we will bubble, but the other 60% we scoop a 8300 pot and become the new table capt and a big favorite to take down the sng.

    ICM gurus feel free to correct me if i'm off here.
  21. Imustcall Imustcall is offline

    Jacksonville, FL
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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:14pm) in reply to Neek

    Of course, you started shoving every hand after this......right?
  22. warden warden is offline

    Tucson, AZ
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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:18pm) in reply to lordxixor101

    You should NOT fold KK here. If the guy is shoving any two, you should be calling as loose as JJ.
     2
  23. warden warden is offline

    Tucson, AZ
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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:21pm) in reply to lane1300

    yes, it is, because if you lose you don't cash.

    you are definitely ahead of his range. let's say it's 22+,A2+,K2+,Q2s+,Q6o+,J7s+,J9o+,T8s+,98s.

    In a $55+5 SNG, calling w/ KTs there (against the aforementioned uber-lose range) loses you, on average, $26.28. For a buy-in of $60, that is a disaster.
     2
  24. jackaaron jackaaron is offline

    Mansfield, OH
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2007 (7/25/2007 12:26pm) in reply to Scurvydog00

    Why we need to stop posting results…

    Often we see hands posted asking for advice, and they have the outcomes listed.<SPAN> </SPAN>I think this isn’t the best way for others to provide their best analysis. <SPAN> </SPAN>Certainly, the more information provided, the better…but not the results. <SPAN> </SPAN>

    When a person reading your account of the hand knows the results to your hand, they often overestimate the degree to which they would have predicted the correct outcome, which skews the advice you are given.

    Another way of looking at it is, and some of you know you’ve done this…a player makes a crying call on the river having no idea whether he was in the lead or not, and he wins.<SPAN> </SPAN>His mind suddenly “remembers” thinking the guy had what he had, and he says, “I knew you had that.”<SPAN> </SPAN>Yeah, okay.<SPAN> </SPAN>
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