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For every successful player, how many lose?

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  1. rustypolano rustypolano is offline

    Daejeon
    Korea, Republic of

    Posts: 122
    Joined: Jun 07

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 9:01pm)

    I've read that 1/3 of SNG players show a profit, seems pretty high to me. Not sure about MTT and cash games...

    We are all aware of the top players and how much money they accumulate in poker (wonder how much they actually put in investments and banks?) ...

    So, I was wondering about the bottom players, the whales that play for pleasure, the fish that can't stop and the complete degenerates that blow their whole paycheques...

    What % of a tournament would they make up, are there cash game regulars (sbrugby mentioned in an article that he has a "watcher" that tells him when certain players log on and play so he can quickly get into that game)
  2. tNaCarN tNaCarN is offline

    Melbourne
    Australia

    Posts: 792
    Joined: Jun 07

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 9:16pm) in reply to rustypolano

    I read that everyone loses in poker but it's how you manage your bankroll and what stakes you play.
  3. Damage1 Damage1 is offline

    Pittsburgh, PA
    United States

    Posts: 2,954
    Joined: Apr 06

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 9:21pm) in reply to tNaCarN

    that doesnt even make sense
  4. Floppin_A Floppin_A is offline

    Greensboro, NC
    United States

    Posts: 78
    Joined: Mar 06

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 9:22pm) in reply to rustypolano

    3
  5. Call Me Jigsaw Call Me Jigsaw is offline

    Apo, AE
    United States

    Posts: 711
    Joined: Oct 07

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 10:22pm) in reply to rustypolano

    I've sharkscoped many people in my day. I'd say 3 out of 4 are losing players.
  6. SICKTIGHT311 SICKTIGHT311 is offline

    Long Beach, CA
    United States

    Posts: 24,818
    Joined: Jul 06

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 10:29pm) in reply to rustypolano

    Simple math here. The answer is 12.
  7. A Bloomfield A Bloomfield is offline

    Clay Center, KS
    United States

    Posts: 155
    Joined: Nov 07

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 10:39pm) in reply to tNaCarN

    Uh, How in the world would bankroll mangement help a losing player? If you are losing, it doesn't matter how you manage your money, you will soon be out of it.
  8. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 3,692
    Joined: Nov 07

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 10:40pm) in reply to A Bloomfield

    vry not true ^^^^
     
  9. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 3,692
    Joined: Nov 07

    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 10:51pm) in reply to okse54

    obviously a losing player is gona lose no matter wat, but some players could be a losing player bc of bad bankroll management and by teaching them good bankroll management they will become winning players with the same skill level. thats what im saying
     
  10. tmac2424 tmac2424 is offline

    Woodinville, WA
    United States

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    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 10:54pm) in reply to rustypolano

    online: ~65%
    live ~85%

    am i way off?
  11. GambleAB GambleAB is offline 1. I'm awesome

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 5,493
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    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 10:55pm) in reply to rustypolano

    That's not really how it works. It's not that Player A wins $1000 and Players B, C, D, and E all lost $250 each. There is a huge pool of recreational players who are long term losers and who maybe put in $50 or $100 each a week. They lose money to low limit grinders or good players who don't have any bankroll managment, or to each other. Some of that money is put into the hands of solid players and is in essence taken out of circulation. The rest is still in the hands of losers, and it moves up to the next limit. The process is repeated, the money is lost, some of it goes to people who won't gamble and lose it, and some of it is in the hands of people who will take shots or who are just plain bad and will lose it eventually. The money moves up the ladder until it is evenly dispursed.

    So, for a winning 30/60 player, technically all of his winnings (or at least a large portion) have originally come from a huge amount of recreational weekend warriors. You can't make a direct line because he may take a few pots off of another regular, who has taken a few pots off of a different regular who has taken it off of a guy who got lucky in a tournament, where 60% of the prize pool was made up of long term losers. In each step of the way, everyone takes a little profit and basically passes it along.
     
  12. kevin070 kevin070 is offline

    Gaylord, MI
    United States

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    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 10:57pm) in reply to rustypolano

    Less than 8% of all poker players (mtt, sng, and cash) are profitable in any given year. Profitable means making from 1 cent on up. That means that at least 92% are losing mean.

    Now if you look at a length of time longer than a year the amount of profitable players shrinks.

    The 8% number comes from an article written about online players in 2004, with the numbers coming from some online execs. Don't ask me to find the article because I don't remember where I read it.
  13. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

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    Mar 26th, 2008 (3/26/2008 11:00pm) in reply to kevin070

    sounds pretty right, u dont see any body with profit in the last 120 days ranked below 90% on opr.
     
  14. kamikazzee63 kamikazzee63 is offline

    Eagan, MN
    United States

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    Mar 27th, 2008 (3/27/2008 12:54am) in reply to rustypolano

    I have heard that, only about 10% of players actually profit over the long run.
  15. p0k3rj03 p0k3rj03 is offline

    Livonia, MI
    United States

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    Mar 27th, 2008 (3/27/2008 7:50am) in reply to tmac2424

    every time ive played live ive been shocked at the ineptitude of people who think they're way better than online. oh well...
     
  16. RustyNail RustyNail is offline

    Richmond, VA
    United States

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    Mar 27th, 2008 (3/27/2008 9:21am) in reply to kamikazzee63

    sharkscopes frequently asked questions says about a 1/3 win.
  17. CraftyCal CraftyCal is offline

    Manchester
    United Kingdom

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    Mar 27th, 2008 (3/27/2008 9:31am) in reply to RustyNail

    ^^that probably is a stupid shot term answer, meaning 1st, 2nd and 3rd win money, the other 6 don't.
  18. VINNY VT VINNY VT is offline

    Blacksburg, VA
    United States

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    Mar 27th, 2008 (3/27/2008 9:42am) in reply to rustypolano

    I have a 5 million hand database, says 60% are losers for cash, take it fwiw
  19. cajundaddy1 cajundaddy1 is offline

    Okinawa
    Japan

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    Mar 27th, 2008 (3/27/2008 10:09am) in reply to VINNY VT

    Count me in with the losers FOR SURE...

    Cajun sends
     
  20. tNaCarN tNaCarN is offline

    Melbourne
    Australia

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    Mar 27th, 2008 (3/27/2008 11:24am) in reply to rustypolano

    i've only gone bust 2 times all with $50 deposits i worked $17 from rake back up to $1000 and i cashed out! over xmas last year i turned $50 i left in my account to another $500 so my total won is $1500 - take away the $100 deposit fees and what Sharkscope (says im down in tournamentsngs) theres my actual br, ll of which was playin $1 sngs, 5/10c no limit holdem and with the occasional shortstack race(gamble shot what ever you call it) in a .5/1 Headsup table.

    I think the only reaon why i havn't and will not go broke again is because i fear losing the money and i play $1/2 sngs i dont play Balla stakes dont intend to but with my income coming from working now i dont have much time to play poker any more. I think you just have to find a limit / game that you can adapt to mentally. About 2-3 months ago i started digging the 18 man Sngs on pokerstars $1 and Full tilts $2 ones i've taken down a few now and i've won 2 $5 18mans both which paid great $$$.

    I'm Proud to say I've helped players on huge downswings turn them around with only a few $$$ left in their accounts ($20-50) to 3 - 4 figure bankrolls now with my advice and wisdom(hehe :P)... Winning and losing in poker seems so clear cut play above your br and skill level you will lose or play within your br and be able to comfortably enjoy the game and play to win/cash/what ever!

    BRM BRM BRM BRM!!!!!!!
  21. RyanGazelle RyanGazelle is offline

    Sheffield
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 24
    Joined: Oct 07

    Mar 27th, 2008 (3/27/2008 11:27am) in reply to tNaCarN

    I have read that only 5% of players are winners long term.
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