pokerstars Game #35397669837: Tournament #219010447, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2009/11/15 19:44:15 WET [2009/11/15 14:44:15 ET]
Table '219010447 7' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: AWice (3801 in chips)
Seat 2: lkk3de (8587 in chips)
Seat 3: txiago (7911 in chips)
Seat 4: MONSTER_DONG (6717 in chips)
Seat 5: JAGGGU (4452 in chips)
Seat 6: Rhodesian23 (10176 in chips)
Seat 7: Tom 198 (2694 in chips)
Seat 8: bbbbb33 (3457 in chips)
Seat 9: kennl (3680 in chips)
AWice: posts the ante 25
lkk3de: posts the ante 25
txiago: posts the ante 25
MONSTER_DONG: posts the ante 25
JAGGGU: posts the ante 25
Rhodesian23: posts the ante 25
Tom 198: posts the ante 25
bbbbb33: posts the ante 25
kennl: posts the ante 25
JAGGGU: posts small blind 125
Rhodesian23: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to txiago [8d 8c]
Tom 198: folds
bbbbb33: folds
kennl: folds
AWice: folds
lkk3de: raises 500 to 750
txiago: raises 1200 to 1950
MONSTER_DONG: folds
JAGGGU: folds
Rhodesian23: raises 8201 to 10151 and is all-in
lkk3de: folds
txiago:

No reads other than I remember he took like 3 seconds before he pushed. I'd jammed on the same guy I just 3bet an orbit before and won without showdown. OPR'd him real quick and he had a 20% or something ROI over 1000 or so games. There's almost 11k and I have to call just a little less than 6k... I realize this is basically a math problem, but what say you?

 

Originally Posted by ABorges

pokerstars Game #35397669837: Tournament #219010447, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2009/11/15 19:44:15 WET [2009/11/15 14:44:15 ET]
Table '219010447 7' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: AWice (3801 in chips)
Seat 2: lkk3de (8587 in chips)
Seat 3: txiago (7911 in chips)
Seat 4: MONSTER_DONG (6717 in chips)
Seat 5: JAGGGU (4452 in chips)
Seat 6: Rhodesian23 (10176 in chips)
Seat 7: Tom 198 (2694 in chips)
Seat 8: bbbbb33 (3457 in chips)
Seat 9: kennl (3680 in chips)
AWice: posts the ante 25
lkk3de: posts the ante 25
txiago: posts the ante 25
MONSTER_DONG: posts the ante 25
JAGGGU: posts the ante 25
Rhodesian23: posts the ante 25
Tom 198: posts the ante 25
bbbbb33: posts the ante 25
kennl: posts the ante 25
JAGGGU: posts small blind 125
Rhodesian23: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to txiago [8d 8c]
Tom 198: folds
bbbbb33: folds
kennl: folds
AWice: folds
lkk3de: raises 500 to 750
txiago: raises 1200 to 1950
MONSTER_DONG: folds
JAGGGU: folds
Rhodesian23: raises 8201 to 10151 and is all-in
lkk3de: folds
txiago:

No reads other than I remember he took like 3 seconds before he pushed. I'd jammed on the same guy I just 3bet an orbit before and won without showdown. OPR'd him real quick and he had a 20% or something ROI over 1000 or so games. There's almost 11k and I have to call just a little less than 6k... I realize this is basically a math problem, but what say you?

Solid Math... fold tho

 

Originally Posted by UWOkid87

Solid Math... fold tho

Effectively 11k in the pot and I have to call 6k... so yes, I think solid math?

 

Originally Posted by ABorges

Effectively 11k in the pot and I have to call 6k... so yes, I think solid math?

You have to win somewhere a touch more than 33% of the time. So, now put him on a range to cold 4-bet you though.

AK,AA,KK,AK,QQ probably all in his range. Now, what else? AQ?

The only flip hands you have are AK and AQ more than likely. Crushing range is going to have AA,KK,QQ, maybe JJ, maybe 1010? I doubt 77 or lower is pushing here.

I don't have pokerstove, but if your 50% in a flip and 20% if your crushed, I just don't see how your getting the odds to play here.

 

Originally Posted by Suitedace87

txiago: raises 1200 to 1950
MONSTER_DONG: folds
JAGGGU: folds
Rhodesian23: raises 8201 to 10151

10151-1950=8201 (not 6k)

pot has roughly 13k btw, so yea i would say "solid math" would be in order here

oh yea and btw fold

sigh but I only have 8k to start the hand...

Seat 3: txiago (7911 in chips)

so YES, 6k to call to effectively win 11k, not 13k. yesh?

 

Originally Posted by calhoun137

solid math, the pot has 13k bc u have to count the 2k u put in already and the blinds and ante's.

Pot has 13k, but villian has 2k more than ABorges, so that 2k doesn't count...thus effectively 11k.

When your stack size is like this, if you raise pre, you should be committed to going all in. You need a bigger stack to consider raise folding here. Either shove or raise with intention to call. The issue is not the call but the 3bet, which you should make in your position only if you are committed. With a mid pair, this is a spot where you have 2 options....

#1. Raise/commit/shove (all really the same);

#2. Fold pre

Calling is terrible - you aren't deep enough to have any set odds

Raise folding - just horrendous and allows you to be abused if someone picks up that you are doing this, and you lose a ton of value when you muck it and he has ak, aq, etc

 

Originally Posted by Suitedace87

i honestly apologize, i misread the stack sizes and thought you had the guy covered for some reason, and now that i see that, it makes the hand all more sick but still i guess its a fold

Np, no harm done

To beaver, I'm never folding if the original raiser shoves over me, but it's the BB that 4bets. Maybe you missed that?

 

Originally Posted by rainmanrcp

How often have you been 3 betting and opening pots pre? Thats pretty important info if you want a general range of villain.

Like I said, I had reshoved on original raiser the orbit before. I also opened twice and took the blinds the last 10 hands, but other than that I'd been really quiet for a while.

Considering you're not opening frequent at all, the 4 bet has to be strong and def fold. I probably wouldn't have even 3 bet villain in the first place, it's really a shove or fold situation and you don't have the chips to be 3 bet folding. Fwiw I would just fold after Ikk3de opens.

This is a fairly obvious fold with no info on the player.

 

Originally Posted by FBorges

It all depends if u think he can have aq there. If u do, call and don´t scream "I fcking KNEW IT" when u see his kk, cause that upsets mom...

sorry I don't take advice from losing players

 

Originally Posted by rayspizza

classless IMO

Look closer

As for results... I tank called thinking his range was a bit more weighted towards AK because of how quickly he shoved, giving me a little extra equity allowing me to call. He had QQ, gg me.

ty all for your replies!