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Fellow masochists (SNG grinders)

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  1. reb3186 reb3186 is offline

    Hurst, TX
    United States

    Posts: 216
    Joined: Oct 07

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:07pm)

    Spots like this tilt me so hard
    pokerstars Game #25100046297: Tournament #141916641, $15+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2009/02/18 19:37:51 CT [2009/02/18 20:37:51 ET]
    Table '141916641 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 2: jameshamer (1655 in chips)
    Seat 3: turdpolish (4215 in chips)
    Seat 5: Wardo911 (5895 in chips)
    Seat 9: Reb3186 (1735 in chips)
    jameshamer: posts the ante 25
    turdpolish: posts the ante 25
    Wardo911: posts the ante 25
    Reb3186: posts the ante 25
    Wardo911: posts small blind 100
    Reb3186: posts big blind 200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Reb3186 [9c 2s]
    jameshamer: calls 200
    turdpolish: folds
    Wardo911: folds
    Reb3186: checks
    *** FLOP *** [9s 7d 4s]
    Reb3186: checks
    jameshamer: bets 400
    Reb3186: ?

    Obv he isn't very good b/c he is limping utg here 4 handed on the bubble.
    It seems there are two ranges that bad players are limping here
    1) QQ+
    2) suitied connectors, small pairs and weak aces

    I feel like a huge nit when I c/f here. Anybody lead this flop? Who c/r?
  2. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

    Storrs Mansfield, CT
    United States

    Posts: 2,107
    Joined: Jul 08

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:13pm) in reply to reb3186

    against an overpair, you are ~20%. i'll c/r stack off here against a random everytime. if he's a player you have a read on, sometimes i'll fold, but it's not standard for me.

    to be honest, since he's your bubble competitor, i don't think you can fold.
  3. Phi Phi is offline aka tennisee

    Posts: 16,250
    Joined: Mar 06

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:19pm) in reply to reb3186

    You have to 100% lead the pot here.

    With his stack he can only fold or shove....there is no making movies....so I'd lead 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the pot here.
  4. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

    Storrs Mansfield, CT
    United States

    Posts: 2,107
    Joined: Jul 08

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:23pm) in reply to reb3186

     
    Originally Posted by reb3186 View Post

    Obv he isn't very good b/c he is limping utg here 4 handed on the bubble.
    It seems there are two ranges that bad players are limping here
    1) QQ+
    2) suitied connectors, small pairs and weak aces

    Since you guys are pretty much tied and are battling it out for 3rd, you need something like... 30%ish equity in this hand? With that range, you have something like 60% equity...

    ---
    105,930 games 0.002 secs 52,965,000 games/sec

    Board: 9s 7d 4s
    Dead:

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 36.809% 36.59% 00.21% 38765 226.50 { QQ+, 77-22, A7s-A5s, KJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, A7o-A5o }
    Hand 1: 63.191% 62.98% 00.21% 66712 226.50 { 9c2s }

    ---
  5. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

    Storrs Mansfield, CT
    United States

    Posts: 2,107
    Joined: Jul 08

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:29pm) in reply to Phi

     
    Originally Posted by PhiAlphaMTSU View Post

    You have to 100% lead the pot here.

    i disagree. against an opponent who i have a read on as aggressive postflop, i will c/r every time. if he has a better hand than TPNK, he's getting his money in anyways. if worse hands than mine are bet/folding, or even bet/calling, the best they can do is have two overcards, which i'm not too worried about.

    if you want to lead to protect your hand, go ahead, but please don't say there's no room for check/raising here
  6. JmL1984 JmL1984 is offline

    New Zealand

    Posts: 2,828
    Joined: May 07

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:33pm) in reply to reb3186

    u have 8 bbs left with top pair on a dry board. i am pushing here all day at this level. if he has 8 bbs and limps into the pot with a monster instead of shoving than so be it...but i think you are too short stacked to wait around and debate this, its shove it down his throat time.

    also, tbh, i probably wouldve shoved pre...people have SUCHHH bad blind play at this level. i see people limp with 10bbs and fold to a shove too often. also, i see this exact play very often in SNGs and most of the time people have air...they just make a weak cbet and cross their fingers hoping you dont shove.
  7. wavegoodbye wavegoodbye is offline

    Acme
    Canada

    Posts: 824
    Joined: Feb 06

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:33pm) in reply to reb3186

    as played i prob. ship this all day, but i suck... leading out def. makes folding easier but it also gives away our precious chips to the other small stack... just ship and shut your eyes IMO
  8. JmL1984 JmL1984 is offline

    New Zealand

    Posts: 2,828
    Joined: May 07

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:48pm) in reply to Phi

     
    Originally Posted by PhiAlphaMTSU View Post

    You have to 100% lead the pot here.

    With his stack he can only fold or shove....there is no making movies....so I'd lead 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the pot here.

    level? so you have 1500 in chips left (blinds 100/200) and you bet out 300 here leaving you with 1100 (5ishBBs)? do you fold if he pushes when u have 5bbs left and top pair? i dunno, that just seems weird to me...i think you have to insta ship all day here. yes, he might have a monster...but as i said before you are too short stacked to fold here. you shouldve pushed after the flop came, definitely not check. right now there is almost no fold equity so he is almost surely calling u with Ax...so just ship it in and hope he doesnt hit his Ax or have a monster. if he has a monster, UL for you, he got lucky because you hit top pair and are too short stacked to fold here. thats about the only board u are shipping on, and it came, so ship it.
  9. clubkiller clubkiller is offline

    Lacey, WA
    United States

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    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 8:51pm) in reply to JmL1984

    please dont say u folded lol?
  10. JustGivr JustGivr is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 632
    Joined: Mar 05

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 9:47pm) in reply to clubkiller

    Meh check raise or open shove are good here in my books. Either way get your chips in the middle, from my experience youre ahead here 90% of the time. His limping range is way too wide to pass up this opporunity with such a small stack. Be prepared to punch someone when he tables a soooooted 9 and shit kicker plays.
  11. JesseWJames JesseWJames is offline

    Newport Beach, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,006
    Joined: May 07

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 9:52pm) in reply to JustGivr

    I think you have to open that pot after the flop. you just flopped top pair 4 handed and your up against a short stack. if he didnt hit anything or has nothing he folds easily, if he pushes your only calling about 1K more chips with top pair and he could very easily have 88 77 another small pair. but on a flop like that 4 handed against a short stack you have to lead into that pot after the flop.
     
  12. reb3186 reb3186 is offline

    Hurst, TX
    United States

    Posts: 216
    Joined: Oct 07

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 10:57pm) in reply to JesseWJames

    Thanks for the input guys. This is how it played out. If we both have something it is going to get in regardless and if he has air I at least want his flop bet out of it.
    Reb3186: raises 1110 to 1510 and is all-in
    jameshamer: calls 1030 and is all-in
    Uncalled bet (80) returned to Reb3186
    *** TURN *** [9s 7d 4s] [As]
    *** RIVER *** [9s 7d 4s As] [Kh]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Reb3186: shows [9c 2s] (a pair of Nines)
    jameshamer: shows [4d 4h] (three of a kind, Fours)
    jameshamer collected 3460 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 3460 | Rake 0
    Board [9s 7d 4s As Kh]
    Seat 2: jameshamer showed [4d 4h] and won (3460) with three of a kind, Fours
    Seat 3: turdpolish (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Wardo911 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 9: Reb3186 (big blind) showed [9c 2s] and lost with a pair of Nines

    I am never shoving this pre and maybe thats a leak in my game, just looking to get better
    Thread Starter
  13. JustGivr JustGivr is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 632
    Joined: Mar 05

    Feb 18th, 2009 (2/18/2009 11:53pm) in reply to reb3186

    Ummm your leaderboard stats on sharkscope say you know exactly what youre doing. First in 6 dollar 9 man turbo for profits in 2009??
  14. Askesis_ Askesis_ is offline

    Tampa, FL
    United States

    Posts: 3,066
    Joined: Jan 06

    Feb 19th, 2009 (2/19/2009 12:56am) in reply to JustGivr

     
    Originally Posted by JustGivr View Post

    Ummm your leaderboard stats on sharkscope say you know exactly what youre doing. First in 6 dollar 9 man turbo for profits in 2009??

    He's very good. That doesn't mean there's no situation that he doesn't know the optimal play
     
  15. reb3186 reb3186 is offline

    Hurst, TX
    United States

    Posts: 216
    Joined: Oct 07

    Feb 19th, 2009 (2/19/2009 2:19am) in reply to leftygrove

     
    Originally Posted by leftygrove View Post

    to be honest, since he's your bubble competitor, i don't think you can fold.

    I think this is a great point lefty. I dont think you can nit up against your fellow stortstack. Perhaps if it was the 2nd in chips that is afraid of the big stack and might limp strong and if you had a read one might find a way to fold.

    I think this might be one of those spots that you just have to laugh and think about the other guy patting himself on the back for playing his hand to perfection
    Thread Starter
  16. JustGivr JustGivr is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 632
    Joined: Mar 05

    Feb 19th, 2009 (2/19/2009 2:47am) in reply to Askesis_

     
    Originally Posted by Askesis_ View Post

     
    Originally Posted by JustGivr View Post

    Ummm your leaderboard stats on sharkscope say you know exactly what youre doing. First in 6 dollar 9 man turbo for profits in 2009??

    He's very good. That doesn't mean there's no situation that he doesn't know the optimal play

    Im a 6 dollar turbo 9 man grinder, just jealous thats all ;)
  17. Autolobotomist Autolobotomist is offline playing air is my style? so what

    Tempe, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 10,063
    Joined: Jun 07

    Feb 19th, 2009 (2/19/2009 2:53am) in reply to reb3186

    I miss value shoving this flop.
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