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  1. You're going to tell me I should've called this aren't you?

    pokerstars Game #70982942402: Tournament #548010392, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XL (10000/20000) - 2011/11/23 0:16:30 WET [2011/11/22 19:16:30 ET]
    Table '548010392 150' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: OBiggestHead (633479 in chips)
    Seat 2: cocadas69 (1217903 in chips)
    Seat 3: 27.02.1993 (301031 in chips)
    Seat 5: IneedMassari (925641 in chips)
    Seat 6: steve3331 (790161 in chips)
    Seat 8: Booster77 (605294 in chips)
    Seat 9: daughton (580556 in chips)
    OBiggestHead: posts the ante 2500
    cocadas69: posts the ante 2500
    27.02.1993: posts the ante 2500
    IneedMassari: posts the ante 2500
    steve3331: posts the ante 2500
    Booster77: posts the ante 2500
    daughton: posts the ante 2500
    IneedMassari: posts small blind 10000
    steve3331: posts big blind 20000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to daughton [Ts Th]
    Booster77: folds
    daughton: raises 34321 to 54321
    OBiggestHead: folds
    cocadas69: folds
    27.02.1993: folds
    IneedMassari: folds
    steve3331: raises 733340 to 787661 and is all-in
    daughton: folds
    Uncalled bet (733340) returned to steve3331
    steve3331 collected 136142 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 136142 | Rake 0
    Seat 1: OBiggestHead folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: cocadas69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: 27.02.1993 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: IneedMassari (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: steve3331 (big blind) collected (136142)
    Seat 8: Booster77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: daughton folded before Flop
    Edited By: daughton Nov 23rd, 2011 at 01:20 AM
    Add daughton to Rail
  2. eeek ,

    I think so D. Gotta race late imo. I would be insta calling but I spew like crazy.. sooo

    GG GLGL!

    (did you not play sunday?)
     
    Add Arty_the_Cat to Rail
  3. less pre..

    any reads?

    Most of the time it's a snap call here. Mostly it's like AQ/AK..

    Might call with 9s as well. folding 8s and under..
    Add SSG to Rail
  4. Well, everybody was pretty tight. He'd raise folded quite a bit up at this tbl.

    I think I got a bit flustered and folded. He's got no need to do this with less than TT or AK though has he?

    I figured I'd get another chance but as it happened I crawled to the FT and went out 9th. I think perhaps I missed this chance here? I don't know?

    No Arty, I didn't play Sunday, sorry, hopefully this weekend.
    Edited By: daughton Nov 23rd, 2011 at 01:19 AM
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd daughton to Rail
  5. Well he's not going to just jam AA or KK..it's almost always going to be AK or AQ. There's like 4 hands he can possibly have, JJ and QQ are possible. you're getting like 1.2-1 so you need to have around 45% to call. If he shoves AQ+ and jj-qq you're break even. Throw 99, AJs in there and it's going to be slightly better...he may even be jamming smaller pairs.

    I'd call...but make it less pre
    Raise
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  6. LOL at everyone talking about his preflop sizing, i mean yea its more that people normaly raise these days, but it's not terrible, and it has almost no bearing on this hand
     
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  7.  
    Originally Posted by pokerscrub1 View Post

    LOL at everyone talking about his preflop sizing, i mean yea its more that people normaly raise these days, but it's not terrible, and it has almost no bearing on this hand

    I don't think any one said it was terrible to raise 54k...

    But why risk more chips than you have to? you can raise less and get the same results. also, i doubt he jams if you min raise (because it's a huge shove, not so huge of a shove when you make it 54321) therefore it does change how the hand would play out here
    Raise
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  8. Ok, so it's probably a call but is a fold that bad here for me?
    Thread StarterAdd daughton to Rail
  9. Fold isn't terrible if the table is tight and weakish as you said - it's almost always a raise and could sometimes be JJ holding over you. I don't think I fold here - I'm just saying I can see your reasoning. If the table was aggro and had more regs it's a snap call.
    Raise
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  10. Fold isn't terrible if the table is tight and weakish as you said - it's almost always a raise and could sometimes be JJ holding over you. I don't think I fold here - I'm just saying I can see your reasoning. If the table was aggro and had more regs it's a snap call.
    Raise
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  11. He ain't just jamming QQ+. So it's a flip or you have 77-99 crushed. Only better hand you'll see here is JJ.
    Add TheSquid to Rail
  12. its 50/50 . if u think u have an edge on the field then u can just fold and leave urself 25bbs+ .. u dont have to call in this spot, but if u do and end up having a smaller pair crushed or winning a race, then u put urself in great position to take it down.
    Edited By: BelieveIt Nov 23rd, 2011 at 02:03 PM
    Raise
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  13. I don't agree with people saying that AA, KK, or QQ won't jam here. Calling here or folding here would need to be a little player dependent. However, this is a pretty big hand late here, and could be a good racing spot. He might've raise folded a lot, but he hasn't straight up jammed...soooo, it's kinda up to your gut I suppose...
    Raise
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  14.  
    Originally Posted by nw25th View Post

    I don't agree with people saying that AA, KK, or QQ won't jam here. Calling here or folding here would need to be a little player dependent. However, this is a pretty big hand late here, and could be a good racing spot. He might've raise folded a lot, but he hasn't straight up jammed...soooo, it's kinda up to your gut I suppose...

    whahhh?....why would villian shove here with QQ+, sounds absurd imo.
     
    Add McBain74 to Rail
  15. No way he is shoving QQ+ i would call, i think his shoving range def includes 66/77/88/99 so you could be crushing or flipping

    Such a big advantage of shipping the tourney if we win this pot
     
    Add BenFaz to Rail
  16. Thanks everyone, I guess calling is right especially as I never really got another chance and went out 9th.

    Lesson learned.
    Thread StarterAdd daughton to Rail
  17. Unless you are playing to limp into the FT this is a call imo, you have 25bb 2nd shortest stack at the table- you should be playing to take first in this mtt so you have to take flips occasionally. Doubt there is much money diff between 12th and 9-7th either.

    The only other thing i would consider is your table image- if you have a super solid image and havent been playing many pots villian could be alot stronger here. One of my fav spots is against a super tight player that makes a big raise in ep- i like jamming with my big pp cuz they arent folding much of the time
    Raise
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  18. I think he wont really wanna re-raise smaller, he knows you can then shove over. If her reraises to say 125k, thats about a fifth of your stack, so he knows you probs won't call - you will either fold or re-raise over him - putting him in a sticky position. Therefore I think he can be shoving with both his big hands and smaller. I think it is a call IMO, only made so because your stack is looking small, and there are antes. If even only 5 - 10bb more I think i would fold here.
    Raise
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  19. What if I had over 30BB, would it still be a call?
    Edited By: daughton Nov 23rd, 2011 at 10:00 PM
    Thread StarterAdd daughton to Rail
  20. would he shove if you had over 30bbs? thats a completely different question, before you raise have a plan (easier said than done)
    Add Ptrou to Rail
  21. lol, I'm never raise/folding TT with 23 bb. If you had 30bb it is a tougher decision but I still think I'm calling pretty close to 100%. As mentioned before, he's just not shoving QQ+ so you're way ahead or flipping. gives you a huge lead in this hand
    Raise
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  22. ^^This the fact that we have raised already and there is that much in the middle makes this a snap. Also if u have been folding a lot to three bets or the table in general than opponent could he even lighter.
    Raise
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  23. if im reading this right he starts the hand with 29bbs not 23, but im also prolly gettin it in here and hoping to win what looks like to be a flip , or maybe he shows up with 99 sometimes to
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  24. I had a similar situation in the Big 55 few weeks ago w/ TT but w/ 56BB BTN vs SB (a mad russian). I was 7/15 and he had slightly more chips than I had. I made the call w/ TT and he showed AK and he obv got the king.

    Usually players are not jamming AA,KK or QQ here, because they want as much as equity and they don't want you pull you out of the hand. So these 3 hands are easily discounteable.

    In this case here his range is 99-JJ;AQs+;AQo+ imo, so with TT u are running about 54,4/45,6 against this range.

    Should he be a bit looser, lets say he also jams AJo/AJs and also pocket 8's in this spot you are running against the range of 88-JJ;AJ+ about 57,3/42,6.
    Regarding to the fact that you are in these cases a slight favorite and adding to this the amount of chips that you have already invested and the initial pot (in comparison to your 25BB stack) you have to call here.

    With a win of such a hand you also have a good positon for the final table and have a way better chance to take it down.
    Edited By: AMasta89 Nov 24th, 2011 at 01:31 AM
    Raise
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  25. oh wow, u raised to 54k and the blinds were 10-20k? What is this 2008?
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  26. ??? What is wrong with my bet size pre flop

    It's about 2.4 BB. What do you want me to do? I don't get it.
    Thread StarterAdd daughton to Rail
  27. Its more like 2.7 but people just mean making it say 2.2 does pretty much the same thing but your saving yourself chips when you fold
     
    Add BenFaz to Rail
  28. how is it final 12 when there is 7 sitting at your table? final 14 or 13

     
    Originally Posted by nw25th View Post

    I don't agree with people saying that AA, KK, or QQ won't jam here. Calling here or folding here would need to be a little player dependent. However, this is a pretty big hand late here, and could be a good racing spot. He might've raise folded a lot, but he hasn't straight up jammed...soooo, it's kinda up to your gut I suppose...

    It is just really hard for his opponent to wake up with one of these hands expecially when he just 3bet jams over 30blinds. Now there are those few exceptions where inexperienced players dont know how to play their big hands like AA KK QQ, and would just jam in a spot like this, so it all really depends on the experience of your opponent.

     
    Originally Posted by daughton View Post

    ??? What is wrong with my bet size pre flop

    It's about 2.4 BB. What do you want me to do? I don't get it.

    Generally when I have over 25bbs i dont open for 10% of my stack, if you only had 10bbs would you open 10%?? It is just really hard for him to jam 30+ bbs if you only make it 2bbs or 2.2 bbs. really forces your opponent make a smaller 3bet or to just call and be forced to play post flop. Plus, I dont really understand the wierd raises 54321 blast off?? to me that is just asking to be jammed on.
    Edited By: MO G Kush Nov 24th, 2011 at 06:17 PM
    Raise
    Add MO G Kush to Rail
  29. I don't think your open was that bad at all. I like the bet sizing there, I think he has to be slightly stronger then we think since your basic "lil over min" raise from EP shows a good amount of strength. I think there is a possibility that he has qq or kk and is hoping your not sitting with aces but a medium pair like jj or -99 and will snap off. But I don't see my self ever folding specially with the stack size you have.
    Raise
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  30. I'm gonna tell you I need more information before I can tell you what you should have done. At first glance, yes I am calling though.
     1

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