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Final table push, call or raise?

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  1. Johny PoKer Johny PoKer is offline

    Alexandria, VA
    United States

    Posts: 159
    Joined: Feb 08

    Feb 11th, 2011 (2/11/2011 3:57pm)

    Is the only play here to jam it in? Chip leader is utg raiser to my bb, I have 21bb, I am out of position. My instinct is to 3x or push. Does it make any sense to call and see flop? Push or check raise push on any fav flop? A call leaves me enough to push him off hand on flop or get nice double up. Raiser is aggressive player and likely to cb any flop if I check to him, but has been snug since getting chip lead. Thoughts?

    Full Tilt Poker Game #27969169972: $19,500 Guarantee (217110348), Table 104 - 15000/30000 Ante 4000 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:28:44 ET - 2011/02/06
    Seat 1: Grave Danger3 (619,062)
    Seat 3: UgA7211 (564,778)
    Seat 4: Johny PoKer (653,768)
    Seat 5: stelaras (1,272,110)
    Seat 6: bastinho06 (415,966)
    Seat 7: GjayjayG (649,000)
    Seat 9: nordmende (460,316)
    Grave Danger3 antes 4,000
    UgA7211 antes 4,000
    Johny PoKer antes 4,000
    stelaras antes 4,000
    bastinho06 antes 4,000
    GjayjayG antes 4,000
    nordmende antes 4,000
    UgA7211 posts the small blind of 15,000
    Johny PoKer posts the big blind of 30,000
    The button is in seat #1
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Johny PoKer [Qd Qc]
    stelaras raises to 60,000
    bastinho06 folds
    GjayjayG folds
    nordmende folds
    Grave Danger3 folds
    UgA7211 folds
    Johny PoKer ??
    Edited By: Johny PoKer Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:06 PM
  2. AceSpade2675 AceSpade2675 is offline

    Lafayette, IN
    United States

    Posts: 108
    Joined: Mar 06

    Feb 11th, 2011 (2/11/2011 4:10pm) in reply to Johny PoKer

    I want the chips in the middle pre-flop on this one. You are obviously way ahead of his range. I would probably go with a raise to 160,000 and hope he shoves.

    I don't really know what kind of hands you want to push him off of if you just flat pre and check the flop. I don't want to give him cheap looks at a flop with Ax, KQ or lower pairs.
  3. felipebball felipebball is offline

    New Zealand

    Posts: 474
    Joined: Nov 07

    Feb 11th, 2011 (2/11/2011 5:34pm) in reply to AceSpade2675

    In these spots, ~20bbs facing a raise, I feel like 3betting announces "Hey i have a monster" since we aren't folding with less than 20bbs after we raise. On the other side, I'm not 3betting 88 or 66 in this spot, if I'm playing, I'm jamming, so in my mind the best way to get weaker hands to call is by stuffing. Obv this doesn't take into account times where he flats our 3bet and decides to not let go of top pair on a 10 8 4 board and we double up through a poorly played A10.

    Could be way off, as i rarely get called with i do it with QQ+ but when i do it with 66, 77 snap calls.
  4. Johny PoKer Johny PoKer is offline

    Alexandria, VA
    United States

    Posts: 159
    Joined: Feb 08

    Feb 11th, 2011 (2/11/2011 6:25pm) in reply to AceSpade2675

     
    Originally Posted by AceSpade2675 View Post

    I want the chips in the middle pre-flop on this one. You are obviously way ahead of his range. I would probably go with a raise to 160,000 and hope he shoves.

    I don't really know what kind of hands you want to push him off of if you just flat pre and check the flop. I don't want to give him cheap looks at a flop with Ax, KQ or lower pairs.

    OK, so if you want the chips in, is a shove to 650,000 not better than raise to 160,000 or so? If he has AJ type hands, he will likely at least call the 160,000.
    Thread Starter
  5. rhinodash rhinodash is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 382
    Joined: Nov 05

    Feb 11th, 2011 (2/11/2011 6:36pm) in reply to Johny PoKer

    ya shove especially if you think this player is any kind of thinking player. As previously said a standard size 3 bet with this stack looks way too strong to a thinking player, jam it and hope he has enough to call imo...
  6. AceSpade2675 AceSpade2675 is offline

    Lafayette, IN
    United States

    Posts: 108
    Joined: Mar 06

    Feb 11th, 2011 (2/11/2011 6:39pm) in reply to rhinodash

    Yeah the shove is probably a better option, but I always seem to think I am leaving a lot out there with the shove in this situation. I guess depending on your image you could always do a raise to about 220,000 and make him think you are just trying to buy it with some low pairs.
  7. rhinodash rhinodash is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 382
    Joined: Nov 05

    Feb 11th, 2011 (2/11/2011 6:43pm) in reply to AceSpade2675

    Well I feel what you are saying about leaving alot out there if you shove as you wanna get all the chips in the middle and double up here ideally, the problem is with your stack size. Also as you move to higher buy in MTTs you have to shove here to balance your range, if you only shove hands that dont want action AJ 88 something like that your play is very exploitable and allows the villian to make good calls when he has enough equity if you shove your monsters as well it widens his calling range and allows you to get paid off.
  8. Johny PoKer Johny PoKer is offline

    Alexandria, VA
    United States

    Posts: 159
    Joined: Feb 08

    Feb 11th, 2011 (2/11/2011 9:34pm) in reply to rhinodash

    OK, for the results oriented, here is what happened. Feels like such an FTP setup. I know for many his shove after my 3 bet with AK is standard, but if I am in his spot I am just calling.

    Johny PoKer raises to 180,000
    stelaras has 15 seconds left to act
    stelaras raises to 930,000
    hromer (Observer): GOOD LUCK GJAYJAY
    Johny PoKer calls 469,768, and is all in
    stelaras shows [Ah Kc]
    Johny PoKer shows [Qd Qc]
    dede72 (Observer): vg
    Uncalled bet of 280,232 returned to stelaras
    *** FLOP *** [8h Kd As]
    *** TURN *** [8h Kd As] [Kh]
    *** RIVER *** [8h Kd As Kh] [6d]
    stelaras shows a full house, Kings full of Aces
    Johny PoKer shows two pair, Kings and Queens
    stelaras wins the pot (1,342,536) with a full house, Kings full of Aces
    dede72 (Observer): weeeeee
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Edited By: Johny PoKer Feb 11th, 2011 at 09:35 PM
    Thread Starter
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