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first post...theory question for tournies

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  1. sunishnyc sunishnyc is offline

    Manalapan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 10
    Joined: Jun 07

    Jun 7th, 2007 (6/7/2007 12:43pm)

    A quick theory question...I have come across this situation a few times recently in tournies where I feel I have the best hand and work to build a big pot on the flop and turn while giving my opponents incorrect drawing odds. The problem I face is that I have ended up building such a large pot that I am priced into the river regardless of what comes off (usually less that a pot size bet on the river)...Should I be betting less early? Do I continue and assume that the times that they do not catch I am building the best value possible? At the lower levels it seems people will call me down no matter how incorrect the odds I present them...
     
  2. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Jun 7th, 2007 (6/7/2007 1:03pm) in reply to sunishnyc

    You don't give enough details to provide any answer other than "it depends"...and that might be the right answer anyway. But you don't say what stakes, what site, etc., which often provides a lot of clues as to how the typical opponent plays against you.

    That said, if you don't like the results playing one style...try something else for awhile. Focus on controlling pot sizes rather than betting big on every street. There's no "right" answer for most MTT situations, so just experiment until you come up with something that works for you.
     
  3. BusHansen BusHansen is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 809
    Joined: Feb 07

    Jun 7th, 2007 (6/7/2007 1:15pm) in reply to grapsfan

    Just because you have "pot odds" doesn't mean you are forced to call off your chips. If you've put your opponent(s) on a range, then you probably have a good idea of what they have. If you're fairly certain of your read and your hand is beat, then why toss more chips in? If you're not sure you're beat, either check or make a crying call. Even if you lose, you'll get some info. Otherwise, just fold and move along...
  4. sunishnyc sunishnyc is offline

    Manalapan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 10
    Joined: Jun 07

    Jun 7th, 2007 (6/7/2007 1:36pm) in reply to grapsfan

    graps...I guess I don't like the results when the incorrect caller hits but I've gotten pastr worrying about each individual spot...My thinking is that gaining value from lesser hands is worth the risk of the outdraw on the whole...Here are two sample hands..please note the river pots sizes and my stack in each to see what I mean

    1st one is late in stars 360 (I may have posted it too)

    pokerstars Game #10309813389: Tournament #51837869, $9.00+$0.90 Hold'em
    No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2007/06/06 - 23:02:41 (ET)
    Table '51837869 38' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: SB (10220 in chips)
    Seat 2: BB (8790 in chips)
    Seat 3: --- (3433 in chips)
    Seat 4: --- (3215 in chips)
    Seat 5: --- (9015 in chips)
    Seat 6: --- (19288 in chips)
    Seat 7: hero (7695 in chips)
    Seat 8: villan (7310 in chips)
    Seat 9: --- (12709 in chips)
    All players post the ante 25

    SB: posts small blind 100
    BB: posts big blind 200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Hero [Ah As]
    4 folds
    hero: raises 400 to 600
    villan: calls 600
    3 folds

    POT: (1,300)
    *** FLOP *** [Js 5s Td]
    Hero: bets 1000
    Villan: calls 1000

    POT: (3,300)
    *** TURN *** [Js 5s Td] [2d]
    Hero: bets 2000
    Villan: calls 2000

    POT: (5,300)
    *** RIVER *** [Js 5s Td 2d] [Ts]

    Hero: $4070 left and covers villan and he????

    2nd hand is early in Stars deep $20

    PokerStars Game #10315929075: Tournament #51837965, $20+$2 Hold'em No
    Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/06/07 - 12:05:29 (ET)
    Table '51837965 32' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: --- (2900 in chips)
    Seat 2: --- (3130 in chips)
    Seat 3: --- (2800 in chips)
    Seat 4: hero (3030 in chips)
    Seat 5: --- (2970 in chips)
    Seat 6: villan (2860 in chips)
    Seat 7: SB (4020 in chips)
    Seat 8: BB (3000 in chips)
    Seat 9: UTG (2290 in chips)
    SB: posts small blind 10
    BB: posts big blind 20
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to hero [Js Jh]
    4 folds
    hero: raises 60 to 80
    1 fold
    villan: calls 80
    SB: calls 70
    BB: folds

    POT $260
    *** FLOP *** [5s 8s Td]
    SB: checks
    Hero: bets 220
    Villan: calls 220
    SB: calls 220

    POT $920
    *** TURN *** [5s 8s Td] [2d]
    SB: checks
    Hero: bets 900
    villan: calls 900
    SB: folds

    POT: $2,720
    *** RIVER *** [5s 8s Td 2d] [Ad]
    Hero: has 1830 left and ???
     
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  5. sunishnyc sunishnyc is offline

    Manalapan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 10
    Joined: Jun 07

    Jun 7th, 2007 (6/7/2007 1:42pm) in reply to BusHansen

    fair enough bus but I've seen so much crazy chit at these stakes that it's tough to gauge an accurate range without putting the donkey % in...Of course I can fold if I am sure I am beat but don't want to automatically assume it
     
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  6. just sick just sick is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 174
    Joined: Feb 07

    Jun 7th, 2007 (6/7/2007 2:06pm) in reply to sunishnyc

    Hand 1:

    At those limits they chase, and chase, and chase, and.............Make them pay up front. If I think he's on a flush draw I'm pushing the turn, save yourself the tough decision on the river.

    Hand 2:

    Man that one sucks. Somebody got there on the river. Bad spot, but I think you have to let this one go. It's still the first level, you have time and chips to still play. I would probably bet a bit less on the turn here, 600-700 will accomplish the same thing as 900.
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