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flat or jam in the 1k on stars?

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  1. KronicKiller KronicKiller is offline

    Clarkfield, MN
    United States

    Posts: 130
    Joined: Nov 07

    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 8:55pm)

    pokerstars Game #32617139954: Tournament #200909016, $1000+$50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (30/60) - 2009/09/08 19:27:27 CT [2009/09/08 20:27:27 ET]
    Table '200909016 110' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: smsuwrestler (10815 in chips)
    Seat 2: detroitj6 (3856 in chips)
    Seat 3: avirexAK (9610 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 4: paulgees81 (9899 in chips)
    Seat 5: superpoker00 (10730 in chips)
    Seat 6: helen25 (8610 in chips)
    Seat 7: cjmcculley (10240 in chips)
    Seat 8: dutchmadness (10815 in chips)
    Seat 9: AceBonG (15425 in chips)
    paulgees81: posts small blind 30
    superpoker00: posts big blind 60
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to smsuwrestler [9s Js]
    helen25: raises 120 to 180
    cjmcculley: folds
    dutchmadness: folds
    AceBonG: folds
    smsuwrestler: calls 180
    detroitj6: folds
    avirexAK: folds
    paulgees81: calls 150
    superpoker00: calls 120
    *** FLOP *** [6c Ts 2s]
    paulgees81: checks
    superpoker00: checks
    helen25: bets 540
    smsuwrestler: calls 540
    paulgees81: folds
    superpoker00: folds
    *** TURN *** [6c Ts 2s] [5s]
    helen25: bets 1140
    smsuwrestler: calls 1140
    *** RIVER *** [6c Ts 2s 5s] [Ah]
    helen25: bets 2160
    smsuwrestler: ?????????
     
  2. Cmoney3 Cmoney3 is offline

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 8:57pm) in reply to KronicKiller

    i think u should raise the turn
  3. DFish DFish is offline

    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    United States

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 9:31pm) in reply to Cmoney3

     
    Originally Posted by Cmoney3 View Post

    i think u should fold the preflop

     
  4. Leet8s Leet8s is offline usausausausausa

    New York City, NY
    United States

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 9:41pm) in reply to DFish

    Hmmmmm, I think if you wanted to get value out of your flush, your better bet was to raise on the turn than the river. As played I flat, don't see you getting called by worse.
     
  5. Whatshoulditbe Whatshoulditbe is offline

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 9:43pm) in reply to Leet8s

     
    Originally Posted by Leet8s View Post

    Hmmmmm, I think if you wanted to get value out of your flush, your better bet was to raise on the turn than the river. As played I flat, don't see you getting called by worse.

     
  6. BigRiskky BigRiskky is offline

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 9:47pm) in reply to Whatshoulditbe

    Definitely get called by worse a lot in this situation, the problem is if you raise, you cant really fold. I think that considered, I flat river, so you arent almost dead the times you are beat.
    132 2
  7. rock3656 rock3656 is offline

    San Diego, CA
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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 9:59pm) in reply to BigRiskky

    flatting pre is fine i think ur 150bb+ deep its not my standard but u can flat here profitably i think, i prob just flat call, but raising river vs a european random is probably fine..
     21
  8. GrayFOX22 GrayFOX22 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 10:06pm) in reply to BigRiskky

     
    Originally Posted by BigRiskky View Post

    Definitely get called by worse a lot in this situation, the problem is if you raise, you cant really fold. I think that considered, I flat river, so you arent almost dead the times you are beat.

    I mean he'll have to just ship if anything. Pot is something like 8240 on river and Villain only has about 4600 left it looks like. Whatever hand he is valuing with on the river that you beat, it will be basically impossible for him to fold getting like 3.3ish-to-1 on his money. I guess it sort of depends on the player too. How did the player lose the chips they did? Overplaying a mediocre hand? Cooler? Chasing a draw and folding when it didn't complete? Is he/she capable (I know its early with an unknown) of opening a wide range of hands from early position? Depending on the player, there could be plenty of worse hands in their range. He could easily have AA here or TT couple of other sets and sometimes (depending) worse flushes. With so much money in there, he can't really ever fold any of those hands. I think you could ship and get called often enough by worse hands that you'll show a slightly higher expectation over flatting.
     
  9. Cmoney3 Cmoney3 is offline

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 10:31pm) in reply to DFish

    dfish what is wrong w flatting J9ss 150 bbs deep?
  10. BigRiskky BigRiskky is offline

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 10:47pm) in reply to GrayFOX22

     
    Originally Posted by GrayFOX22 View Post

    I mean he'll have to just ship if anything. Pot is something like 8240 on river and Villain only has about 4600 left it looks like. Whatever hand he is valuing with on the river that you beat, it will be basically impossible for him to fold getting like 3.3ish-to-1 on his money. I guess it sort of depends on the player too. How did the player lose the chips they did? Overplaying a mediocre hand? Cooler? Chasing a draw and folding when it didn't complete? Is he/she capable (I know its early with an unknown) of opening a wide range of hands from early position? Depending on the player, there could be plenty of worse hands in their range. He could easily have AA here or TT couple of other sets and sometimes (depending) worse flushes. With so much money in there, he can't really ever fold any of those hands. I think you could ship and get called often enough by worse hands that you'll show a slightly higher expectation over flatting.

    Was it only that much more? I hadnt done exact calculations. If he only has 4600 behind, ship it in his face. But lets be honest, I suck at Nlholdemaments on the internet.
    132 2
  11. Leet8s Leet8s is offline usausausausausa

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 10:51pm) in reply to BigRiskky

     
    Originally Posted by BigRiskky View Post

    But lets be honest, I suck at Nlholdemaments on the internet.

    No need to flatter yourself
     
  12. URI_Stunna URI_Stunna is offline

    Kingston, RI
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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 10:57pm) in reply to Leet8s

    i d ship the turn to protect vs the Ace. If he already has it ur fked just coolered out and maybe the bet was to cancel u just shoving to block him out.
  13. Ser Davos Ser Davos is offline

    Canada

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 11:05pm) in reply to KronicKiller

    jam
  14. poisoneye1986 poisoneye1986 is offline

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 11:10pm) in reply to KronicKiller

    i would put him on a flopped set or rivered set, two pair with AT, or a flush draw. no reads i prolly just ship, if he looked like he would get away from a big hand here i would just call since ur not getting value out of anything less than a flush. but i also dont think he puts you on a flush here 100% of the time. he thinks you have jacks or As6s.
  15. GrayFOX22 GrayFOX22 is offline

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 11:37pm) in reply to BigRiskky

     
    Originally Posted by BigRiskky View Post


    Was it only that much more? I hadnt done exact calculations. If he only has 4600 behind, ship it in his face. But lets be honest, I suck at Nlholdemaments on the internet.

    I do agree with what you were saying though. I think if Villain had like 1.5-2x pot left over on river, its probably a lot closer to a call.
     
  16. elgordo420 elgordo420 is offline

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    Sep 8th, 2009 (9/8/2009 11:38pm) in reply to Ser Davos

    Raise turn and probably as played i raise river. Pretty sure in the long run it is going to be +ev move to extract some value of sets and lower flushes against weak players over the times we are getting coolered by higher flushes ect.

    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
     
  17. twopumpchump twopumpchump is offline

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    Sep 9th, 2009 (9/9/2009 12:18am) in reply to KronicKiller

    are you posting results????
  18. JBT449 JBT449 is offline

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    Sep 9th, 2009 (9/9/2009 2:13am) in reply to KronicKiller

    3bet pre and splash that pot
    465 
  19. jcpeace jcpeace is offline

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    Sep 9th, 2009 (9/9/2009 2:16am) in reply to JBT449

     
    Originally Posted by JBT449 View Post

    3bet pre and splash that pot

  20. doubledave22 doubledave22 is offline

    NJ
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    Sep 9th, 2009 (9/9/2009 2:18am) in reply to JBT449

     
    Originally Posted by JBT449 View Post

    3bet pre and splash that pot

    no but seriously tho this
     1
  21. Raysfeve Raysfeve is offline

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    Sep 9th, 2009 (9/9/2009 2:20am) in reply to doubledave22

    ship all in
  22. Zackattak13 Zackattak13 is offline

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    Sep 9th, 2009 (9/9/2009 1:04pm) in reply to KronicKiller

    What is your thinking for flatting the Turn as opposed to raising?? Seems like your flattin to get value on the river, therefore i def shove River. You can also raise Turn, since your flop flat can appear as a float as much as a draw, and perfect turn ro bump air imo.

    Now thinking about it, I def bump turn to hope he shoves, or flat.. check/calls river bet or shove.
    125 13
  23. djkelly69 djkelly69 is offline

    Tuggeranong
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    Sep 9th, 2009 (9/9/2009 7:38pm) in reply to KronicKiller

    why are we playing J9s early to not get it in on this board?
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