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Flatting QQ

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  1. Pick6man Pick6man is offline

    Sacramento, CA
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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 8:22am)

    Is flatting QQ in pos to a utg 3x and a utg1 call 50 bbs deep bad/leak? I chose a passive/deceptive line pre here which made for a complicated decision on the flop. What should be my routine play pre be here? Both early villians have been playing the standard tag/abc game and utg1 villian won a big pot when he 3 bet KK and was in a pot with a another villan on the FD which hit but boated him on the river. Nothing else out of the ordinary....SoCalCat a solid lowstakes grinder is also in the hand.

    As played do you jam or fold this flop? I am way under repped here but when the action gets heated I was not so sure anymore.

    Thoughts/lines pre? Thanks in advance.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #29632102593: $12,500 KO Guarantee (226401831), Table 27 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:03:42 ET - 2011/04/04
    Seat 1: SoCalCat (4,020)
    Seat 2: fibolord (11,925)
    Seat 3: Mr_kinderegg (9,590)
    Seat 4: pnut316 (18,400)
    Seat 5: rolltide012871 (8,715)
    Seat 6: teefor2 (5,120)
    Seat 7: Flinkage1 (5,195)
    Seat 8: Pick6man (6,020)
    Seat 9: offsuit11 (4,580), is sitting out
    offsuit11 posts the small blind of 60
    SoCalCat posts the big blind of 120
    The button is in seat #8
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Pick6man [Qs Qc]
    fibolord folds
    Mr_kinderegg raises to 360
    pnut316 calls 360
    fibolord: ty
    offsuit11 has returned
    rolltide012871 has 15 seconds left to act
    rolltide012871 folds
    teefor2 folds
    Flinkage1 folds
    Pick6man has 15 seconds left to act
    Pick6man calls 360
    offsuit11 folds
    SoCalCat calls 240
    *** FLOP *** [8d 8c 5h]
    SoCalCat bets 1,500
    Mr_kinderegg raises to 3,120
    pnut316 folds
    Pick6man has 15 seconds left to act
    Pick6man has requested TIME
    Pick6man ???????
    Edited By: Pick6man Apr 7th, 2011 at 12:06 AM
    Reason: title update
     
  2. maxxscam maxxscam is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 8:34am) in reply to Pick6man

    socalcat is a solid reg he should never not have an 8 here potting it into 3 other players, so i just fold the qq , kinderegg obv can have 99 - aa here i dunno im more scared of socalcat here then kinderegg, i think u coulda 3 bet called off here fine preflop,
    472 31
  3. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 5:27pm) in reply to AMasta89

    Not loving the flat pre, even IP. You do underrep your hand, but I don't think it's necessary to get tricky this early. Flatting just allows the big blind to come along and you end up playing QQ in a 4 way pot. This creates too many spots where you're stuck not knowing where you stand without risking a significant portion of your stack. Definitely prefer a 3-bet pre/call in this spot.

    Once antes kick in, I could see flatting in MP/LP if you think it will set up a squeeze or if no one else has limped and you want to disguise your hand. In general though, I just don't like playing QQ in a multi-way pot.

    As played, hand is definitely underrepped. But socalcat's range is so wide in the bb pre that he could have flatted with a lot of hands that include an 8. Once kinderegg minraises it's pretty clear he has an overpair....so I agree with maxx with his range being 99-AA. I can't imagine socal not showing up here with an 8 or 55. I think he donk leads this flop with a strong hand hoping to induce action from an overpair and get it in. Folding here and feeling pretty good about it.
      1
  4. Pick6man Pick6man is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 7:42pm) in reply to tyson219

    Thx guys........what would be your sizing here with a 3 bet/call? Obv both stacks are deep and Pnut has a ton.
     
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  5. eDaN eDaN is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 7:57pm) in reply to Pick6man

    1220/call here most of the time, esp since there's also a flatter which makes this even more of a 3bet/call since so many ppl willjust spazz out on you squeezing there, stacksizes vs u would obv be perfect to 4betball since it def looks like u can still fold so yea 1220/call here 99% of the time
  6. MarkFSU1 MarkFSU1 is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 7:59pm) in reply to maxxscam

     
    Originally Posted by maxxscam View Post

    socalcat is a solid reg he should never not have an 8 here potting it into 3 other players, so i just fold the qq , kinderegg obv can have 99 - aa here i dunno im more scared of socalcat here then kinderegg, i think u coulda 3 bet called off here fine preflop,

    +1, ya make it 900-1.1kish and call shove
  7. ZenEnso ZenEnso is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 8:31pm) in reply to MarkFSU1

    I like flatting monsters as long as I'm flatting a ton of my range. You do run into these positions but it will eventually pay off when ppl go nuts with top pair. As played def fold. As for the 3 bet size I make it 850-1000.
  8. razorpoker2002 razorpoker2002 is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 8:52pm) in reply to ZenEnso

    I would of 3b call pre. As played I don't see how We can assume kinder has an 8 in his range just because he raises. If he did why raise. The flop is perfect to just call if he has an 8. I'm getting in and expect to see soco fold and kinder show up with 99+ and maybe even a underpair.
     
  9. ZenEnso ZenEnso is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 9:03pm) in reply to razorpoker2002

    Yea. I kind of missed the actiOn before my first post. I don't think just because the guy leading is a reg he has to have 8-x or 55. Honestly plenty of regs do this with A5 here or any pocket pair 22-77. Also, the re raise is likely 99-AA and you're beating 60% of those.
  10. AmSlim22 AmSlim22 is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2011 (4/5/2011 10:32pm) in reply to ZenEnso

    ehh, tough spot. as played i think it has to be a fold. would prob 3b pre, but i do flat occasionally.

    to guy saying socalcat has an 8, would he really lead pot into 3 players with an 8 on a safe board? i could see a solid player leading an 8, but for pot? i dunno, i mean i guess, i don't know what else he has, just seems odd too. seems like at least 99-JJ can get away from it when he does this, unless he has strong read on raiser.

    would be curious to his hand and why he chose this line.
     
  11. Pick6man Pick6man is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2011 (4/6/2011 12:03am) in reply to AmSlim22

    I saw it as a defensive bet that he liked his hand now or donk leading the 67o/s looking to get it in. The re raise and those ranges stumped me. Is a rando/losing player at 22/15 with 45 hands on him and Pnut is a station and rando 45/3 over same sample. Small samples obv fwiw. Just do not see the point in raising 55,A8,78,98 on a seemingly harmless flop but than again very possible from rando types and I can not see SoCal over calling KK or AA here like ever.
     
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  12. Pick6man Pick6man is offline

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    Apr 7th, 2011 (4/7/2011 12:04am) in reply to Pick6man

    Thx for the input. Obv I put myself in a bad spot by not 3 betting pre here as I have been randomizing some spots. But pre ante I agree it is best to 3 bet/call. I just could not see an 8 here with this type of action as many have pointed out. SoCals bet seemed defensive to me and had him on med pairs and the 67 type hands. 3 bettor should also be flatting here if he does have an 8 or 55 or even contolling with AA/KK but I see alotta crap at the 10 dollar levels from randos so I was not 100% sure. So obv 99-AA and even other pairs perhaps.

    Since I played it in a deceptive manner and got all I wanted and more, I eventually timebank/sigh jammed but I was so close to folding tbo.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #29632102593: $12,500 KO Guarantee (226401831), Table 27 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:03:42 ET - 2011/04/04
    Seat 1: SoCalCat (4,020)
    Seat 2: fibolord (11,925)
    Seat 3: Mr_kinderegg (9,590)
    Seat 4: pnut316 (18,400)
    Seat 5: rolltide012871 (8,715)
    Seat 6: teefor2 (5,120)
    Seat 7: Flinkage1 (5,195)
    Seat 8: Pick6man (6,020)
    Seat 9: offsuit11 (4,580), is sitting out
    offsuit11 posts the small blind of 60
    SoCalCat posts the big blind of 120
    The button is in seat #8
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Pick6man [Qs Qc]
    fibolord folds
    Mr_kinderegg raises to 360
    pnut316 calls 360
    fibolord: ty
    offsuit11 has returned
    rolltide012871 has 15 seconds left to act
    rolltide012871 folds
    teefor2 folds
    Flinkage1 folds
    Pick6man has 15 seconds left to act
    Pick6man calls 360
    offsuit11 folds
    SoCalCat calls 240
    *** FLOP *** [8d 8c 5h]
    SoCalCat bets 1,500
    Mr_kinderegg raises to 3,120
    pnut316 folds
    Pick6man has 15 seconds left to act
    Pick6man has requested TIME
    Pick6man raises to 5,660, and is all in
    SoCalCat calls 2,160, and is all in
    Mr_kinderegg calls 2,540
    Pick6man shows [Qs Qc]
    SoCalCat shows [Ts Tc]
    Mr_kinderegg shows [Jd Jh]
    *** TURN *** [8d 8c 5h] [Kd]
    *** RIVER *** [8d 8c 5h Kd] [3c]
    Pick6man shows two pair, Queens and Eights
    Mr_kinderegg shows two pair, Jacks and Eights
    Pick6man wins the side pot (4,000) with two pair, Queens and Eights
    SoCalCat shows two pair, Tens and Eights
    Pick6man wins the main pot (12,480) with two pair, Queens and Eights
    Mr_kinderegg: nh
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 16,480 Main pot 12,480. Side pot 4,000. | Rake 0
    Board: [8d 8c 5h Kd 3c]
    Seat 1: SoCalCat (big blind) showed [Ts Tc] and lost with two pair, Tens and Eights
    Seat 2: fibolord didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 3: Mr_kinderegg showed [Jd Jh] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Eights
    Seat 4: pnut316 folded on the Flop
    Seat 5: rolltide012871 didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 6: teefor2 didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 7: Flinkage1 didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 8: Pick6man (button) showed [Qs Qc] and won (16,480) with two pair, Queens and Eights
    Seat 9: offsuit11 (small blind) folded before the Flop
     
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  13. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

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    Apr 7th, 2011 (4/7/2011 12:10am) in reply to Pick6man

    nice to see a post where someone asks the question... but had the best hand after all.

    QQ > JJ > TT is kinda sick on that flop on so many levels....lol
     
  14. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

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    Apr 7th, 2011 (4/7/2011 12:21am) in reply to bonflizubi

    Nice call/good hand. Good hand to post, thanks.
      1
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