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Flop floaters and how to deal (HU cash game)

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  1. armorall armorall is offline

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 65
    Joined: Jul 08

    Sep 9th, 2008 (9/9/2008 8:49am)

    Hi, a new thing I am seeing all the time, that is starting to get the best of me is flop floating. I play mainly HU cash, and I am wonder best defense against this. The biggest problems are when I have a big PP deep in the session 100+ hands in.

    Last night .25/.50 HU, I get QQ on button, standard 3x raise, get 3 bet and call. Flop is all low cards, he checks, and I bet pot (around 8 or 9). He calls, turn, the dreaded Ace, he checks, and I make the mistake of betting again, pot committing myself. He shoves, and I make the poor decision of calling. He flips over AJ, and I'm done. He was a maniac player by the way.

    Now, I know that is a bad play, but when you get a big PP HU, JJ+, CB flop when there are no overs, and a over comes on turn or river, they bet, what do you do?

    I will admit, I float flops too from time to time, but this seems to be something I am seeing over and over again, more and more. Alot of times, I am skipping CBs now, and that has been saving me lots of money.

    It just doesn't make sense to me to shove with an over on the flop for 70 BBs, but when you know the SOB is calling you no matter what to make a move, or hit there hand on a later street, maybe thats the way to go? Also, many dreams have been crushed when I flop 2 pair only to lose to a higher 2 pair on turn or river, or get counterfitted. That usually comes from me trapping and ultimately screwing myself.

    Any suggestions from HU specialists would be appreciated.

    thanks
  2. Friendly Fire Friendly Fire is offline I'm a pos spammer. The mods have removed my PMs and will ban my account if I continue spamming.

    Dublin
    Ireland

    Posts: 70
    Joined: May 05

    Sep 9th, 2008 (9/9/2008 9:49am) in reply to armorall

    Firstly I'd advise ofetn 4betting pre w QQ+ against this type of over agro opponent then leading full pot bet on flop (as you did)... at least a few times in situations like this to mix it up and counter his aggression. Once you have 4 bet pre it will be hard for a player like him to fold on any flop if he thinks he has overs so you might even consider just overshoving the flop all in. Seriously you will be surprised how often they will call with AT+ high.

    e.g. pre u 3x to 1.50, he 3x back to 4.50, i would often just make it 15 or 16 here, if he calls pot will be $30+ on flop and u can just shove. He won't know how to react after u've done this a few times. Great way of messing with his head and also scooping decent sized pots when he makes the mistakes both pre and post flop. Also, he is likely to stack off with top pair in this spot later as he expects you to shove, so ideally u will get a ten high flop with your overpair later vs his AT, KT, QT, JT or even 9T.

    Basically I am saying to out aggro him to put him in his place. Then once he has chilled (for fear of being 4-bet or shoved on again you can go back to normal strategy of regular c-bets etc).

    Key is to mix it up, e.g. make the same play later holding AK - i.e. cbet flop and small lead turn A etc.

    Final note: in my experience HU is all about playing the player not just the cards.

    Get him out of his comfort zone anbd he will be much less likely to float so often.

    One other move I like to make in similar spots is to pause and c-bet flop around 3/5ths of pot amount, looking like u actually just hit your rag with Ace rag, when A comes on turn pause and check, you can lead small and he might rr smallish and u can shove or he will lead and u can cr big...both looks like v strong line with 2 pair+ and will often get the fold from him.

    Out crazy him and put him to the test often - he will spew v quickly under such pressure as totally out of comfort zone and psychologically feels only way to regain dominance is to shove all in on you (with any floped pair, top pair etc).
  3. armorall armorall is offline

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 65
    Joined: Jul 08

    Sep 9th, 2008 (9/9/2008 10:01am) in reply to Friendly Fire

    Very good advice, thank you. I had def. altered my normal play against this guy. I really should have 4 bet. The super super aggressive players have been getting the best of me, especially when I am trying to trap.

    I have seen players call all ins post flop with AT+ high, no pair, no draw. I am a big fan of them doing that!
    Thread Starter
  4. Friendly Fire Friendly Fire is offline I'm a pos spammer. The mods have removed my PMs and will ban my account if I continue spamming.

    Dublin
    Ireland

    Posts: 70
    Joined: May 05

    Sep 9th, 2008 (9/9/2008 10:13am) in reply to armorall

    Nice. Also, maybe once you have shown this over aggro type of play back at him and you are back in the regular flow of game, i.e. he has chilled a little and you get a big hands again I would 100% play it weakly, like check flop and small lead turn etc...let him go back to his roots of trying to blast you out of it. Trap will work then.

    e.g. when the exact same QQ situation arises again after a while of playing maybe don't 4-bet but do lead flop and check turn, even check river too (with intention of calling obv)... give him the chance try and out aggro you - i.e. he will think it's perfect opportunity to reassert himself.

    Remember, a trap doesn't always have to be a check. You can lead small with the intention of appearing like u want to play a smallish pot with a medium strength hand and it is just so inviting for him to try and steal big on you in that spot. i.e. invite him into the trap - the moderately sized pot you are intentionally building (while looking pretty weak) is the proverbial cheese in the mouse trap ;)

    Sorry to ramble, but another trap I like is to not 4-bet pre, then check back to him then lead turn smallish, looking like you want to just make a couple of bucks with a pretty weak hand - as if you know he didnt hit flop and you know he knows u didnt hit flop so looks like you are value betting AK, AQ high. Again it looks ideal spot in his eyes to steal it from you. Flat call the turn raise from him and check the river or even lead real small again lol... he has to fire big again almost always. ;)
  5. McArdle McArdle is offline

    Reading, PA
    United States

    Posts: 264
    Joined: May 06

    Sep 9th, 2008 (9/9/2008 11:12am) in reply to Friendly Fire

    If he is making a mistake by calling then thats all u can do.Don't get caught up in results.You can be sure he is making a mistake by betting more than the pot .Also Hu if you bet alot to the point were your opponent can't seperate bluffs from value bets then there really isn't a point to trapping.Bet.Bet.Bet.Get your big hands paid off without trapping.
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