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Flop and turn play w/ Kings vs. good & aggro villains

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  1. Bisull Bisull is offline

    Iceland

    Posts: 402
    Joined: Mar 08

    Feb 4th, 2012 (2/4/2012 1:02pm)

    UTG is a little on the tighter side but pretty accomplished, does not seem like the kind of player to get out of line preantes.
    BB has played 15 hands so far and is 20/15/4.0 but no showdowns yet...

    I flat pre basicly to disguise my hand since i think UTG will fold ALOT preflop vs. 3bets from the SB and I wanna get value post from TPGK type hands... BB calls as well, something I did expect but i'm fine with that. IMO flatting preflop is 50/50, kinda sucks that I'ts less likely I can get it in pre or on the flop but it has it's advantages too, if the hand goes to showdown I'll be able to flat more raises and have to think less about light squeezes and I'll get value from QJ that hits TP whereas it just folds pre to a 3bet

    So, 2 questions... Flopplay (leading vs. C/C vs. C/R) and turnplay after leading flop and checking turn????

    This is the 22$1R1A

    Thanks in advance

    pokerstars Hand #74870051077: Tournament #558010533, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2012/02/01 20:38:38 UTC [2012/02/01 15:38:38 ET]
    Table '558010533 25' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
    Seat 1: hellzito (17321 in chips)
    Seat 2: Foggsy (10424 in chips)
    Seat 3: joaolima84 (5625 in chips)
    Seat 4: ironyorick (6970 in chips)
    Seat 5: Bastoonas (8827 in chips)
    Seat 6: emaestrodobi (12254 in chips)
    Seat 7: raare01 (6739 in chips)
    Seat 8: Bisull (8845 in chips)
    Seat 9: D.END.49 (14140 in chips)
    Bisull: posts small blind 75
    D.END.49: posts big blind 150
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Bisull [Kh Ks]
    hellzito: raises 150 to 300
    Foggsy: folds
    joaolima84: folds
    ironyorick: folds
    Bastoonas: folds
    emaestrodobi has timed out
    emaestrodobi: folds
    emaestrodobi is sitting out
    raare01: folds
    emaestrodobi has returned
    Bisull: calls 225
    D.END.49: calls 150
    *** FLOP *** [9h 4h 7d]
    Bisull: bets 423
    D.END.49: calls 423
    hellzito: folds
    *** TURN *** [9h 4h 7d] [Ac]
    Bisull: checks
    D.END.49: bets 1375
    Bisull: ???
    705 
  2. kelmann333 kelmann333 is offline

    Posts: 331
    Joined: Mar 10

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 7:32pm) in reply to Bisull

    why did u not raise PF?
    also, should've bet turn, even tho ace hits.
    as played, u have no idea where u r at in the hand. u could raise him here, but your line screams weakness (bet flop, check scare-card turn).
    the line u took, I'd fold and play better next time.
  3. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 2,121
    Joined: Feb 06

    Feb 7th, 2012 (2/7/2012 8:56pm) in reply to kelmann333

    That flop hits a decent number of hands that will often flat from the blinds, so I can see UTG raiser checking behind on the flop. Since that seems possible/likely, I like your flop lead.

    You have to bet the turn though. I can see checking behind a decent number of turns, but not this one. You have no idea where you stand and c/r turns your hand into a bluff. c/f allows you get to bluffed too often. c/c makes your hand very difficult to play on the river. I much prefer b/f on the turn and if he flats, reevaluate the river.
     969 
  4. luckierno7 luckierno7 is offline

    Posts: 723
    Joined: Dec 09

    Feb 8th, 2012 (2/8/2012 8:38pm) in reply to tyson219

    imo disguising your hand when u re in sb not the best idea
    even kk is hard to play oop in 3 way pot- u re just gonna get yourself into a lot of trouble spots like this
    also, not sure how to play this hand in this circumstances- i m curious what other replies u ll get- is check call flop 2 passive? i m def 2 passive and lil stationy... ya prolly lead is best
    anyway, as played i chekc call turn and i plan to check fold most of the time on the river
    118 
  5. JLucky34 JLucky34 is offline

    Beaverton, OR
    United States

    Posts: 1,140
    Joined: Aug 05

    Feb 8th, 2012 (2/8/2012 9:06pm) in reply to luckierno7

    The advice to this thread receives a C-, at best. Poker will forever be profitable.

    Not certain how chk/call turn, chk/call or b/c the river were not discussed once? We have a hand that beats his range on the flop, and a turn card that 'scares us' that he can bluff at with JT, TT, JJ, QQ, etc. A lot of his range are hands that we beat, and if he indeed has the A we can control the pot size.

    /end rant
  6. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 2,121
    Joined: Feb 06

    Feb 8th, 2012 (2/8/2012 9:27pm) in reply to JLucky34

     
    Originally Posted by JLucky34 View Post

    The advice to this thread receives a C-, at best. Poker will forever be profitable.

    Not certain how chk/call turn, chk/call or b/c the river were not discussed once? We have a hand that beats his range on the flop, and a turn card that 'scares us' that he can bluff at with JT, TT, JJ, QQ, etc. A lot of his range are hands that we beat, and if he indeed has the A we can control the pot size.

    /end rant

    I'll be nice and refrain from grading your post.

    1) "UTG is a little on the tighter side but pretty accomplished, does not seem like the kind of player to get out of line preantes." That's the first reason why check/calling turn and river is bad.

    2) How does c/c turn and c/c or b/c river control the pot size when OOP? Does not make sense.

    3) If you want to play a guessing game pre antes, go for it. Sure, villains range includes TT-QQ, T9, JT and a few other pair/draw hands. But it also includes a lot Ax hands that float the flop. I prefer not to c/c the turn when it doesn't narrow villains range and puts us in a tough spot on the river when he bets. I have nothing against b/f turn and c/c river to bluff catch, but I have a lot of issues with c/c turn and c/c river without sufficient history with the villain to be confident he's betting with worse hands on both streets.

    4) Facing a donk lead on that board, I actually think most overpairs are raising the flop. So I think we can discount TT-QQ from villains range. More likely for him to have hands that are floating flop or 66/88 or T9/JT, etc.
     969 
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