pokerstars Game #26319373313: Tournament #149949807, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2009/03/24 21:25:25 WET [2009/03/24 17:25:25 ET]
Table '149949807 99' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Bultgren (5397 in chips)
Seat 2: NUTorious1 (14943 in chips)
Seat 3: kjunik (2755 in chips)
Seat 4: KopplarJocke (13081 in chips)
Seat 5: PunterTHFC (25676 in chips)
Seat 6: santa53 (36023 in chips)
Seat 7: NDTour (12555 in chips)
Seat 8: TBPoker111 (9960 in chips)
Seat 9: prrrak4783 (15198 in chips)
Bultgren: posts the ante 50
NUTorious1: posts the ante 50
kjunik: posts the ante 50
KopplarJocke: posts the ante 50
PunterTHFC: posts the ante 50
santa53: posts the ante 50
NDTour: posts the ante 50
TBPoker111: posts the ante 50
prrrak4783: posts the ante 50
PunterTHFC: posts small blind 200
santa53: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PunterTHFC [Ks As]
NDTour: folds
TBPoker111: folds
prrrak4783: raises 625 to 1025
Bultgren: folds
NUTorious1: folds
kjunik: folds
KopplarJocke: folds
PunterTHFC: ?????????????

Half an hour earlier I had shoved over his MP raise with A,10 and he called off half his chips with AJo....I hit the 10 on the flop.

He's been pretty quiet since then apart from once again calling a shove for half his stack after raising with AJo - this time it holds seeing off A6.

Thoughts????

Hard work getting any sort of hand discussion going on here.........keep trying

pokerstars Game #26319373313: Tournament #149949807, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2009/03/24 21:25:25 WET [2009/03/24 17:25:25 ET]
Table '149949807 99' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Bultgren (5397 in chips)
Seat 2: NUTorious1 (14943 in chips)
Seat 3: kjunik (2755 in chips)
Seat 4: KopplarJocke (13081 in chips)
Seat 5: PunterTHFC (25676 in chips)
Seat 6: santa53 (36023 in chips)
Seat 7: NDTour (12555 in chips)
Seat 8: TBPoker111 (9960 in chips)
Seat 9: prrrak4783 (15198 in chips)
Bultgren: posts the ante 50
NUTorious1: posts the ante 50
kjunik: posts the ante 50
KopplarJocke: posts the ante 50
PunterTHFC: posts the ante 50
santa53: posts the ante 50
NDTour: posts the ante 50
TBPoker111: posts the ante 50
prrrak4783: posts the ante 50
PunterTHFC: posts small blind 200
santa53: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PunterTHFC [Ks As]
NDTour: folds
TBPoker111: folds
prrrak4783: raises 625 to 1025
Bultgren: folds
NUTorious1: folds
kjunik: folds
KopplarJocke: folds
PunterTHFC: raises 3775 to 4800
santa53: folds
prrrak4783: raises 10348 to 15148 and is all-in
PunterTHFC:????????

So I re-raise him to roughly a third of his stack and he pushes.......

Now I've got roughly 2/1 to call his shove here but on the other hand I'm still quite handily stacked if I fold with an M of around 20.

Call or Fold?

dude, you CANNOT fold now. you got what you wanted, didnt you?

were you expecting him to flat or fold, if not you just turned a great hand into a buff?

snap call, plz.

i think this is a pretty easy call, and given what you've said about villain, i think it becomes even easier

why do you need 3bet 3.7x? Why are you scared of calling with AK esp given his past history? If you were so scared (well regardless if you're scared) you're 3bet shouldve been around 3k, then maybe he calls and you can evaluate the flop.

Crayon, I'm no fan of small raises from the SB in this situation - playing AK OOP is never fun.

Upshot is I called and couldn't outdraw QQ.

My only niggling concern was what I said above re calling a shove for 60% of my stack when I'm fairly well positioned with M25.....if I'm 15M or lower I'm fine with it.

Err......it's the stack sizes I am unsure about not his range.

 

Originally Posted by Sdanby

if youve seen him open up and call shoves with AJ twice, im definately labelling him fairly loose, therefore i am definately 3bet/calling in this spot, u did the right thing imo. Just out of curiousity, is it safe to say you wouldnt have posted this hand if your AK would have hit?

Yes because I am totally results oriented.....

You must have missed the part where I was questioning whether it was right to get 60% of my stack in with an M25 - that's what I was hoping for some help with.

When is it right to take the flip and for what percentage of your stack?

M20 and 50% of your stack?

M18 for 70%?

No problem snap calling the shove with a lower M stack here but I thought a fair bit before calling due to my stack size.

 

Originally Posted by Punter64

 

Originally Posted by Sdanby

if youve seen him open up and call shoves with AJ twice, im definately labelling him fairly loose, therefore i am definately 3bet/calling in this spot, u did the right thing imo. Just out of curiousity, is it safe to say you wouldnt have posted this hand if your AK would have hit?

Yes because I am totally results oriented.....

You must have missed the part where I was questioning whether it was right to get 60% of my stack in with an M25 - that's what I was hoping for some help with.

When is it right to take the flip and for what percentage of your stack?

M20 and 50% of your stack?

M18 for 70%?

No problem snap calling the shove with a lower M stack here but I thought a fair bit before calling due to my stack size.

OK ok i understand. Once you have 3 bet him here you HAVE to call a shove because like as said before you would be turning your premium hand into a bluff (if your 3bet folding AKss here you should be doing it with ATC, kinda thing).

But in these tourns blinds rise fairly quick so if you fold these spots too often your not gonna stay with M25. and especially with the info youve given about him you HAVE to get it in here IMO. I really could not imagine doing anything else.

And when you say, when is it right to flip for what percent of your stack, you cannot say you are definately flipping in any given situation. he could easily show up with AQ here, and maybe maybe even AJ idk, these guys will remeber a suckout and try and get you back, seriously

 

Originally Posted by Punter64

You must have missed the part where I was questioning whether it was right to get 60% of my stack in with an M25 - that's what I was hoping for some help with.

When is it right to take the flip and for what percentage of your stack?

M20 and 50% of your stack?

M18 for 70%?

No problem snap calling the shove with a lower M stack here but I thought a fair bit before calling due to my stack size.

Don't think about it like 'what percentage of your stack should you flip for'. Basically, if you're ahead of someone's range (which AKs is in this case), you should be alright getting it in for pretty much any amount of your stack, no matter how deep. If you're flipping w/ someone's range, like 45% equity or something, once ante's have kicked in and you've already 3-bet, you're definitely getting the pot odds to make the call. The only time you don't want to get it in w/ 40-45% or so equity is when the pot odds aren't there, like first couple levels of an MTT, if you 3-bet AK standard and get 4-bet shoved and their range is fairly tight, it's gonna be a losing call. Like someone else said, pokerstove and some chip equity calculations will give you the answer, but in this situation, I don't think there's a better way to play it at all vs. almost anyone w/ <40BB effective stacks. I'm sure you can 3-bet to about 3k tho and accomplish what you did, except for making him think he has more fold equity if he shoves.

But yea, don't get too caught up in risk/reward assessment imo, it's too abstract. In most cases, if it's +EV, it's +EV and you wanna take the edge.

3 bet/call shove. No other way to play that hand. Flatting might be acceptable if u r deeper, in position and have reshove stacks behind you.

It's not like his image is the supernit.

Folding=quit poker.

Once I find out you 3 bet fold AK, i will 4bet you with any pair, any suited connector, any suited A, a9o+. Any broadway.

Thanks for the input all - seems the general consensus is ignore stack size and go with the +EV.