Nobody folds in lower level tournies

Flush draw, call. Straight draw, call. No pair, No draw, call. And always with the line, "I put you on AK"

Oh the insanity of it all!!!!

I don't understand that reasoning behind some of these players making this kind of play. Say I raise from early position with JJ (3x BB raise). The button calls with AK.

Flop 259 rainbow. I bet the pot and the button calls.

Now the pot has more then both our stacks.

Turn 9

I go all in. The button calls and turns over AK.

River Ace or King.

How do you call that with Ace high? I see it way to often. You almost have to keep pots small then push on the river. Unless you flop the nuts...

Fold equity still exists there.

I am able to continuation bet with great success at the $6-11 level.

Think about it like this.

If the entry is less than the price of a lottery ticket you are going to run into people who gamble. The chances of them making good on their gut shot straight draw, is always better than their chances of winning anything in the lottery.

Furthermore, at the very start of the tournament, each persons expected return is negative. They will only change this to positive if they consider themselves really good at poker OR if they can get more chips than they started with.

If they started with 1500 in chips and less than 50% chance of making any money their EV is negative. By improving to 3000 chips they consider that they have doubled their chances of cashing which is now above 50% and therefore their EV is now positive. They will play crazy until they have reached this point at which time they will "slow down".

I think a lot of players are forgetting about something huge in relation to their game, their table image.

If you are an agressive player at a table, and you happen to have caught a few playable hands in the last few orbits, you may start to look like a bully/maniac. Remember, at this level, there are tons of bad players. There are players who will bet just like you did on some of these boards with AQ,KQ. So, sure, your jacks are good. But, calling with their AK is actually very likely +EV in these situations. It annoys you because you are getting rivered, but it isn't a bad call, figuring how most players play at this level (and it really isn't to your advantage for everyone to respect you at this level).

Just play a tight game. Wait for good hands, bet out. Try to abuse position. Also, be willing to FOLD at this level. If you have JJ, low board, and you bet out and get called. Be careful if the Ace hits. Bet out again, but if you get raised, just throw it away. If the flush hits, and your raised, be very careful. But, at the same time, play the player. A good player will realize if the flush hits that many players represent it, so they will raise. Just because you have a set doesn't mean that you didn't win. So, you might have to call.

This makes low level a volatile game. But, I don't buy that you don't have fold equity. I think you do have fold equity at this level (i've made some very nice stone cold bluffs midway into MTT's where I got big laydowns). Just realize who you are playing against and craft your strategy to them.

Jennifear has won at the lower levels for a long time. Sheets won for a long time. There are lots of micro players (talking about $5 levels, if your playing for a $1, it's practically play money and not worth worrying about, just push and pray) that win money. It's possible. If you can't beat the bad players, you have to look at your game, what can you change to make yourself profitable against them?

Also, ignore the bad beats. I think any winning strategy will lead to times an Ace hits on the river and kills you off. It sucks (I just had a streak where I was getting killed with all ins when someone would flip over JQ, be behind and always river a Jack or a Queen), but it's part of the game. Over time, you should be salivating for these calls.

One tip, you definitely do NOT want any strategy that discourages bad calls? I keep seeing people who have AA who want to look for ways to discourage a 3 outer from calling and into folding on the turn. If you have someone crushed and drawing to 25% or less, you want calls (assuming they are paying you). When they hit, they hit. But, when they don't, you'll have chips to weather those difficult times.

what is your point

Not sure that hand is a great example of the point mentioned in the OP.

EternityHero's mistake took place on the flop, when he should have reshoved.

Obviously his call of your turn push is a catastrophe for him from a math standpoint, but you couldn't fault him if he had reshoved the flop, right?

Owler,

Don't you want this call every day of the week? You were a huge favorite with your money in with one card to go, and he hits.

Me, I love these calls. Let them chase as a huge dog. I'm not sure that you had no fold equity here. You could have reraised preflop, but chose not to. This caused them to c-bet, and make a preflop call with the flush draw.

With all their chips in, bad players hate to fold. So, he made a terrible fold call and caught.

That being said, I don't think this proves no fold equity here. If you push preflop, you may get a fold. If you push the turn, you probably get a fold.

But, I ask again, why would you want to do this. Welcome the call, take the beat, and move on.

sure i welcome the call, the point i was trying to make, was so like someone said aobve, u make chips in these lvls with hands like this, when bad players cant fold the flush or str8 draw, perhaps it makes my post more clear now.

anyway, i wouldnt like a re-raise preflop, being so deep, there isnt need to create big pots so early i think, he already made a 5BB raise telling me hes strong, if i re-raise, i only get called by hands that are ahead of me or AK, but this is a donkament, so you never know.

Yeah look at this donk

pokerstars Game #9682207825: Tournament #48887706, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/04/30 - 13:04:10 (ET)
Table '48887706 15' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: 55lucky55 (1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: Largadon (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: LadyLaBean (1510 in chips)
Seat 4: sanbernar (1435 in chips)
Seat 5: MikeD1979 (1430 in chips)
Seat 6: EDSCARDS (1410 in chips)
Seat 7: arnar123 (1470 in chips)
Seat 8: zman16222 (1770 in chips)
Seat 9: jetskieur31 (1500 in chips)
zman16222: posts small blind 10
jetskieur31: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Largadon [7d 7s]
55lucky55: folds
Largadon: calls 20
LadyLaBean: calls 20
sanbernar: folds
MikeD1979: folds
EDSCARDS: folds
arnar123: raises 100 to 120
zman16222: calls 110
jetskieur31: folds
Largadon: calls 100
LadyLaBean: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js 2d 9h]
zman16222: checks
Largadon: checks
arnar123: bets 200
zman16222: folds
Largadon: calls 200
*** TURN *** [Js 2d 9h] [3c]
Largadon: checks
arnar123: checks
*** RIVER *** [Js 2d 9h 3c] [Qs]
Largadon: checks
arnar123: bets 350
Largadon: calls 350
*** SHOW DOWN ***
arnar123: shows [Qh Kd] (a pair of Queens)
Largadon: mucks hand
arnar123 collected 1500 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1500 | Rake 0
Board [Js 2d 9h 3c Qs]
Seat 1: 55lucky55 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Largadon mucked [7d 7s]
Seat 3: LadyLaBean folded before Flop
Seat 4: sanbernar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: MikeD1979 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: EDSCARDS folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: arnar123 (button) showed [Qh Kd] and won (1500) with a pair of Queens
Seat 8: zman16222 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: jetskieur31 (big blind) folded before Flop

I don't see how arnar is the donk here. You check/called all streets. I see his play as ok here.
Yours I think was the bad play. You have to bet to see where you are, why were you just calling with two overs there?

I thought fold equity applied to when you actually want someone to fold. When I got JJ going to the river against two overs, I am looking for call equity. I think one thing you see at the higher levels are players who are OK losing when they get their money in with the best of it. As long as I am increasing my stack by a percentage greater than my chance of winning, then I want a call. I.E. I would give up increasing my stack 10% on the river to take down the the current larger pot, even if I am 80% chance to win. Unfortunately, at this point, you have no fold equity.

At the lower limits, you just have to bet big and deal with the beats.

Good luck.