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Fold Top Pair/Top Kicker Like a giant Nit?

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  1. jerro jerro is offline

    Posts: 425
    Joined: Feb 06

    Jun 23rd, 2008 (6/23/2008 2:06pm)

    pokerstars Game #18254409513: Tournament #92044000, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (3000/6000) - 2008/06/20 - 00:06:00 (ET)
    Table '92044000 3' 9-max Seat #8 is the button

    Seat 1: SSDAS (136448 in chips)
    Seat 2: mlborder (70994 in chips)
    Seat 4: The_Dog_J8 (132046 in chips)
    Seat 5: jerro (114496 in chips)
    Seat 6: bully419 (222216 in chips)
    Seat 7: MasterMac87 (263881 in chips)
    Seat 8: lee xxx (176099 in chips)
    Seat 9: Rentoo (143905 in chips)

    SSDAS: posts the ante 600
    mlborder: posts the ante 600
    The_Dog_J8: posts the ante 600
    jerro: posts the ante 600
    bully419: posts the ante 600
    MasterMac87: posts the ante 600
    lee xxx: posts the ante 600
    Rentoo: posts the ante 600
    Rentoo: posts small blind 3000
    SSDAS: posts big blind 6000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***

    Dealt to jerro [7c As]
    mlborder: folds
    The_Dog_J8: folds
    jerro: raises 10000 to 16000
    bully419: calls 16000
    MasterMac87: folds
    lee xxx: folds
    Rentoo: calls 13000
    SSDAS: folds

    *** FLOP *** [7s 4h 6s]
    Rentoo: checks
    jerro: bets 24000
    bully419: raises 66000 to 90000
    jerro: ?

    He basically putting me allin...From the speed of his raise I felt I was definitely behind. He didn't think at all, nearly instant...Can I fold this getting great odds?

    He hasn't been too active. I'd say his coldcalling range includes 22-AA, KJ+

    If I fold my stack is 73,000
  2. jhesser jhesser is offline

    Pompano Beach, FL
    United States

    Posts: 758
    Joined: Jul 05

    Jun 23rd, 2008 (6/23/2008 2:12pm) in reply to jerro

    That's definately a draw heavy board. Not saying that raising with A7 was a completly bad play, but it seems to put you in these kinds of situations more that not. Raising pre with that hand was good to try and get the blinds but to fallow a long and lose the tourny with a hand like that doesn't seem to be the right move. I think I fold and push with something a little better.
  3. TheVillageGrinder TheVillageGrinder is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,970
    Joined: Sep 07

    Jun 23rd, 2008 (6/23/2008 2:21pm) in reply to jerro

    This is why stack sizes become so very very important later in a t'ment. Fold pre imo.
  4. Micdiddy Micdiddy is offline

    Santa Barbara, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,688
    Joined: Dec 05

    Jun 23rd, 2008 (6/23/2008 2:26pm) in reply to jerro

    I don't really think you should be folding pre or flop here. Pre you need to take some blinds, A7 is likely to be the best here out of the 5 remaining. On the flop you have to much invested and too strong of a hand.
    Except that you also mentioned a read on him that he's calling a lot of pots pre-flop. If he really is doing this then i'd fold A7 because u can wait for a better hand knowing you'll get money in the pot when u hit it, and because you'll have to play A7 out of position against this guy. But as played, also knowing he has a wide pre-flop range, u have to call this push. He can easily be doing it with any pair assuming u missed with overcards.
  5. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
    United States

    Posts: 6,364
    Joined: Mar 06

    Jun 23rd, 2008 (6/23/2008 2:37pm) in reply to jerro

    Here is your problem.

    You think he has a decent calling range here. Then, you cbet a raggy flop here. Sure, he could have a decent pair here, but does he really have to?

    If he called you with A5 or A4, he probably can do this? Even if he called A9, he can do this.

    This is very much a board where neither one of you would have hit it that strong, but it's scary, since it has draws (that neither of you likely have), you need to bet out sets, etc.

    I really think your A7 can be good here. If he's a decent player (don't know if he is) he can do this with a KJ type hand, since, on the unlikely even that you hit this board, he likely still has outs on you.

    I think your stuck here, once you cbet this type of board, you have to play it down. With your stack, if your just trying to steal, you have to check/fold the flop. You cbet the likely best hand, you can't fold it here.

    I think you are likely going to ultimately lose this hand (either be behind now or behind by the end) more times than not, but even if you are only winning about 40%, you have the odds to call, and you're better off winning this 40% than to fold and have you 73k 100% of the time.
  6. AJKHoosier1 AJKHoosier1 is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 2,589
    Joined: Jul 06

    Jun 23rd, 2008 (6/23/2008 10:39pm) in reply to jerro

    edit** since i misread your position at first, i would probably fold pre w/ this stack/hand, tho raising isnt horrible. as played, snap put in the chips. bet/folding this flop w/ this stack would be a nightmare.
    131
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