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Is folding AKo here way too nitty?

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  1. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

    Olathe, KS
    United States

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    Jul 3rd, 2008 (7/3/2008 11:59pm)

    No reads, just thought that kind of raise must be huge. Thought of Stop and Go, but fold anyway.

    pokerstars Game #18567934781: Tournament #94379120, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/07/03 - 23:56:09 (ET)
    Table '94379120 3' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: kyred44 (3950 in chips)
    Seat 2: lwlion (6950 in chips)
    Seat 3: lumpy288 (6315 in chips)
    Seat 4: Styles1978 (2625 in chips)
    Seat 5: Diesel David (6565 in chips)
    Seat 6: robU224411 (2855 in chips)
    Seat 7: grommo3412 (4445 in chips)
    Seat 9: 13Jayhawk13 (6795 in chips)
    kyred44: posts small blind 100
    lwlion: posts big blind 200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to 13Jayhawk13 [Kh Ac]
    lumpy288: folds
    Styles1978: folds
    Diesel David: folds
    robU224411: raises 1000 to 1200
    grommo3412: folds
    13Jayhawk13: folds
    kyred44: folds
    lwlion: folds
    Uncalled bet (1000) returned to robU224411
    robU224411 collected 500 from pot
    robU224411: doesn't show hand
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 500 | Rake 0
    Seat 1: kyred44 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 2: lwlion (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: lumpy288 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: Styles1978 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Diesel David folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: robU224411 collected (500)
    Seat 7: grommo3412 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: 13Jayhawk13 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  2. ChrisA69 ChrisA69 is offline

    Henderson, NV
    United States

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:02am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    obv misclick
  3. frosty012 frosty012 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:03am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    huh? so you put him on exactly AA or KK....bad fold man esp with stack sizes
  4. theczar19 theczar19 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:03am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    No way this post can be real....
    30 11
  5. gimmidaloot7 gimmidaloot7 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:05am) in reply to theczar19

    ROFL!
  6. eatyourstack eatyourstack is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:08am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    GREAT FOLD I called the pokerstar dealer and he told me he had aces

    seriously dude pokerstars Game #18567934781: Tournament #94379120, $5.00+$0.50
     
  7. gimmidaloot7 gimmidaloot7 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:11am) in reply to eatyourstack

    It doesnt even matter its a $5 game....if it was $1,000,000 game you still have to shove in this spot given the stack sizes.
  8. Bigchip79 Bigchip79 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:12am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    "Is folding AKo here way too nitty?"--- replace the word "is" between "here" and "way" and remove the "?" and u have ur answer sir.
  9. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:15am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    This is actually one of the few times that I have ever folded AK after a small stack raise. I actually felt pretty good about the rest of the table, but don't know him. I'm really wondering if there is that much value lost in folding if I'm almost certain I'm in a race. I didn't put him on AA or KK, actually something like 77. I'm obv an idiot, but I still don't see why its a must race scenario.
    Thread Starter
  10. OrangeSpades OrangeSpades is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:16am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    And now for a serious response... I think you are almost always against hands like 99-JJ or AQ here, and considering this player has less than half your chips I think the fold is too tight, especially online where you can't really sit and wait forever. AKo can be folded in a lot of situations, even when you are pretty sure you are not up against AA or KK (despite what many players think), but here I think you should play it...I'd make it 2400 and guarantee that you see 5 cards by putting the shorter stack all in. Calling and missing the flop and folding is not a better option in my opinion.
  11. frosty012 frosty012 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:20am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    you want action here because it's a great way to chip up without putting your life on the line...you are very likely to have him dominated and pretty much the worst case scenerio is a flip so if you win the flip you're up to 9k and if you lose you're down to 3k which is still alright. if you're folding AK what hands are you willing to play lol?
  12. mendieta19 mendieta19 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:22am) in reply to frosty012

    stop&go is not a good play when ur in position imo... its kinda hard to perform
    3
  13. elendil elendil is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:47am) in reply to mendieta19

    If U're @ a Passive Table its not the Worst Fold in the world IMO. However as stated this looks like a decent spot to "gamble" with AK. 6500+ Chips at the 1st break in a PS NL Tourny is very workable how ever 3000> chips isn't, so depending on your mind set I don't think this fold is terrible.
    Are you losing value here? probably.
  14. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 12:51am) in reply to OrangeSpades

    Orange, thanks for the serious response. I actually put him on 77-TT; I thought AA or KK or AK were possible, but I figured he'd either have raised to 3x or just open shoved w/those hands. My question is really this: at what point would his stack size have been such that my folding that hand would not have been a mistake? I guess I'm only on the level of putting people on ranges, but not yet figured out when my opponent's range combined with his stack make my hand, which I expect is second best preflop, unfoldable. Any help would be much appreciated.
    Thread Starter
  15. TheConArtist TheConArtist is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 1:00am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    You put him on 77-TT? See there's where you have a big leak. Do you really think you can narrow his range after a simple preflop raise to exactly those hands? Don't be absurd. His range is WAY wider than that, AKo is WELL AHEAD of any reasonable range he can have.

    My question is really this: at what point would his stack size have been such that my folding that hand would not have been a mistake?


    Unless this is some weird bubble or sattelite situation then I think the answer to this is none. There is no stack size he could have that folding here would be remotely close to correct I would think.

    You would have to pry AK out of my cold dead hand in this situation.

    lol p5s.
  16. OrangeSpades OrangeSpades is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 1:08am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    It's not that I think your fold is such a mistake, but I think it is hard to sit around and wait for perfect situations in online tournaments...getting AK all-in vs short stack in almost certainly a coinflip or better spot is pretty good...I can definitely understand your point though. AK is one of those hands that I'd rather be able to re-raise and take pots down preflop when the blinds and antes are meaningful during the later stages of the tournament, and i hate having to deal with it too early on in the tournament. But online in that spot, I'd have to play it.
  17. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 1:09am) in reply to TheConArtist

    Why is that range so unreasonable? I think that by betting 1/3 of his stack he must have a hand that he doesn't really want action from, but will still never be folding. That's why I put him on 77-TT. I'm not sure I see where that range is crazy. I think KJ, KQ, AQ, AJ and the like might be doing this, but I still don't see those hands playing like that often.
    Thread Starter
  18. frosty012 frosty012 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 1:17am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    all i can say is that you gravely overestimate the skill level of the avg $5 player...i wouldn't be surprised if he turned over almost any 2 cards in that spot and narrowing his range to 4 hands is nuts.
  19. TheConArtist TheConArtist is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 1:21am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

     
    Originally Posted by 13Jayhawk13 View Post

    Why is that range so unreasonable? I think that by betting 1/3 of his stack he must have a hand that he doesn't really want action from, but will still never be folding. That's why I put him on 77-TT. I'm not sure I see where that range is crazy. I think KJ, KQ, AQ, AJ and the like might be doing this, but I still don't see those hands playing like that often.

    I think his range is almost any pair, KJ, KQ, AT, AQ, AK maybe even some random stupid stuff you wouldn't believe. He's actually LESS likely to have AA or KK given the action meaning you're probably NEVER dominated her. Folding is a gigantic mistake.

    The range is unreasonable because you canno see his cards. You can guess he might have a mid pair but he might also have lots of other stuff.
  20. wvu138 wvu138 is offline

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    Jul 4th, 2008 (7/4/2008 1:52am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    Please never fold in that spot again
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