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ft of 109$ turbo.. is this a call?

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  1. BelieveIt BelieveIt is offline Scammer

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 11:16am)

    given stacks+blinds, should i be making this call?

    pokerstars Game #65087476018: Tournament #431010182, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVI (2500/5000) - 2011/07/26 6:16:23 ET
    Table '431010182 3' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: Navigatorlg (33080 in chips)
    Seat 3: anaconda1234 (188819 in chips)
    Seat 4: Romeplayer (13431 in chips)
    Seat 5: OnUrBikeSon (63296 in chips)
    Seat 6: phatlat (32503 in chips)
    Seat 7: JeanGrae (61851 in chips)
    Seat 8: maga 001161 (69020 in chips)
    Navigatorlg: posts the ante 625
    anaconda1234: posts the ante 625
    Romeplayer: posts the ante 625
    OnUrBikeSon: posts the ante 625
    phatlat: posts the ante 625
    JeanGrae: posts the ante 625
    maga 001161: posts the ante 625
    JeanGrae: posts small blind 2500
    maga 001161: posts big blind 5000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to OnUrBikeSon [3c Ad]
    Navigatorlg: folds
    anaconda1234: folds
    Romeplayer: raises 7806 to 12806 and is all-in
    OnUrBikeSon: ?????
  2. dadams588 dadams588 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 12:18pm) in reply to BelieveIt

    Maybe.. maybe not.. totally villain dependent. If this is the first time ive ever seen villain play a poker hand i prolly fold and assume hes bad and not shoving wide at all.
     
  3. djdoodoo djdoodoo is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 12:42pm) in reply to dadams588

    No you shouldn't. You're on 12bb. Villain is on 2bb. With this said you're in co so you would have to either isolate by reshoving or fold to someone elses reshove. The bb is most likely calling anyway. I'd fold because you don't need to be the one taking him out.
  4. dalix88 dalix88 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 1:48pm) in reply to djdoodoo

     
    Originally Posted by djdoodoo View Post

    No you shouldn't. You're on 12bb. Villain is on 2bb. With this said you're in co so you would have to either isolate by reshoving or fold to someone elses reshove. The bb is most likely calling anyway. I'd fold because you don't need to be the one taking him out.

    Def this. Obv call if you were in the BB, maybe iso-shove in the SB, but both iso-shoving and calling in your position are horrible imo.
    935 
  5. BelieveIt BelieveIt is offline Scammer

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 1:49pm) in reply to dalix88

    ok, what hands should i be calling with here?
    Thread Starter
  6. dalix88 dalix88 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 1:53pm) in reply to BelieveIt

    I would probably be iso-shoving my entire range here, and it would be a tight range since it's something of a nightmare ICM spot. Maybe something like AJ+ 66+, I suppose you could trap flat AA/KK as well but it depends on how the players behind you will interpret that.
    Edited By: dalix88 Nov 25th, 2011 at 01:53 PM
    935 
  7. Arty_the_Cat Arty_the_Cat is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 1:53pm) in reply to dalix88

    You could be ahead but if so, not by much. Also you have the button, sb, and bb to act behind. The only play here is to shove over or fold and you don't want to get burnt shoving a weak ace.

    Wait for a better spot imo
    glglgl!
     
  8. Scarypooper Scarypooper is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 4:03pm) in reply to Arty_the_Cat

    I'm amazed how tight people's ranges are here. With so many dead chips in the middle and a 12 BB stack, I'm almost definately iso getting it in.
    166 2
  9. wackyJaxon wackyJaxon is offline Admin X

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 4:07pm) in reply to Scarypooper

     
    Originally Posted by Scarypooper View Post

    I'm amazed how tight people's ranges are here. With so many dead chips in the middle and a 12 BB stack, I'm almost definately iso getting it in.

    Scary, what is your range to call in this situation?
      1 
  10. djdoodoo djdoodoo is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 4:41pm) in reply to wackyJaxon

    My iso shoving range here is the following -> AJo+ (maybe ATs), KQo, KJo, JQo, 66+. maybe 98s+ (the 98s may be a little too loose however, JTs is pretty good though).
    A9+ I'm not entirely sure on. I'd be a little stumped there. It's probably good though.

    Also in response to dailx88 there is no need to trap with 12xbb. You should shove AA or KK because no one will think you have it anyway. So they're still getting it in if they are thinking of squeezing to your flat. So no flat to clarify.
    Edited By: djdoodoo Nov 25th, 2011 at 04:44 PM
  11. GutShotBen GutShotBen is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 11:03pm) in reply to Scarypooper

     
    Originally Posted by Scarypooper View Post

    I'm amazed how tight people's ranges are here. With so many dead chips in the middle and a 12 BB stack, I'm almost definately iso getting it in.

    this maybe even wider a lil
     
  12. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 11:28pm) in reply to Scarypooper

     
    Originally Posted by Scarypooper View Post

    I'm amazed how tight people's ranges are here. With so many dead chips in the middle and a 12 BB stack, I'm almost definately iso getting it in.

    Do you know anything about ICM? Shoving is pretty bad here imo.
    660 1
  13. NG3434 NG3434 is offline make it happen

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 11:44pm) in reply to TrueMetalMan

    I dont see how this is ever a call. We're calling 1/5th of our stack to hope we are a 60/40 favourite, and also we hope no one else shoves from the blinds... thats a lot of luck we are banking on. Im sure there will be a better spot to get our money in

    also, if you call and the bb flats and its a 6810 flop now what? Its just going to get messy
    Edited By: NG3434 Nov 25th, 2011 at 11:48 PM
     
  14. donkthorne04 donkthorne04 is offline Disabled account

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 11:52pm) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    Do you know anything about ICM? Shoving is pretty bad here imo.

    are you able to get your points across without being an ass about it, just curious

    that being said i'd fold
  15. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

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    Nov 25th, 2011 (11/25/2011 11:55pm) in reply to donkthorne04

    "Do you know anything about ICM?" was not a rhetorical question. I don't know if he takes that into consideration or not. I think he is making his decisions based on cEV and not $EV.
    660 1
  16. Im Glad fa Dat Im Glad fa Dat is offline

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    Nov 26th, 2011 (11/26/2011 12:17am) in reply to Pghfan987

    There are some situations that we get ourselves into that every decision we make could be the right one.I think flatting would be the worst option here b/c the big blind will call most likely with an decent 2. You are 3rd in chips. If you iso shove and get no callers and win you are still not going to have the CL, I understand you are moving up in chips but is the risk worth the reward here? I feel that there are too many negative outcomes here and I pick a better spot personally. You have to hope to Iso-shove here get no callers and hope your in a race. Fold and get the next one.
  17. P0KERDUUDE P0KERDUUDE is offline

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    Nov 26th, 2011 (11/26/2011 12:36am) in reply to Scarypooper

     
    Originally Posted by Scarypooper View Post

    I'm amazed how tight people's ranges are here. With so many dead chips in the middle and a 12 BB stack, I'm almost definately iso getting it in.

    yeah i agree, I'm def re-isoing as you probably are ahead and because of all the dead money

    edit: didnt notice all the short stacks. I'm still getting it in.
     
  18. feedthemfish feedthemfish is offline

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    Nov 26th, 2011 (11/26/2011 6:36am) in reply to P0KERDUUDE

    ship them in man. i haven't got to play in forever but in my time this wasn't even a question. my chips were in before he got done shoving his lol

    and his range is stupid here like Kx J10 even sooted connects. just depends on your read.
    Edited By: feedthemfish Nov 26th, 2011 at 06:37 AM
  19. donkthorne04 donkthorne04 is offline Disabled account

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    Nov 26th, 2011 (11/26/2011 6:40am) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    "Do you know anything about ICM?" was not a rhetorical question. I don't know if he takes that into consideration or not. I think he is making his decisions based on cEV and not $EV.

    misunderstood you then, apologies
  20. Briplay Briplay is offline

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    Nov 26th, 2011 (11/26/2011 5:28pm) in reply to dalix88

    i agree..i'd just add that since there are 3 behind you you risk running into a hand here from SB BB if you call..then what?
  21. darkhawk-200 darkhawk-200 is offline

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    Nov 26th, 2011 (11/26/2011 11:28pm) in reply to Briplay

    fold or call/fold to shove from sb/bb call bu, if u think they will give u credit
     1
  22. McNallyville McNallyville is offline

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    Nov 26th, 2011 (11/26/2011 11:50pm) in reply to darkhawk-200

    Based off the stacks behind you I fold. One is short and the two are the same as you obv if you are in the blinds a call/ reshove iso is fine. With ace 8 > i reshove maybe ace 7 but with your hand no matter what the other guy rolls you are a slight fav at best or have 3 outs one way or another. Also if you are called from someone behind its the same siuation where pretty much its all up to luck. You are short in terms of a norm tourney but this is also a turbo where you chips have more value and you can prob find a better spot later. I know ppl say play for the win blah blah but idk if this is "as great" of a situation as ppl make it out to be.
    393 
  23. rojostars rojostars is offline

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    Nov 27th, 2011 (11/27/2011 2:00am) in reply to McNallyville

    IMO if the table is kinda tight I would fold, and choose other spots to push and keep stealing their blinds, if the table is just aggro/sick, maybe i would like to take this spot, cause im ahead of his range for sure, and its hard to find a really good spots in that turbo ft (and SH now,blind will eat you).
  24. BelieveIt BelieveIt is offline Scammer

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    Nov 27th, 2011 (11/27/2011 11:19am) in reply to rojostars

    yeah i guess at best im 60/40 and may get reshoved on, like it says this is $109 final table so its fair to assume that they all know what they are doing. i can see myself getting reshoved on by like KQs or AT+ 77+ if i flat depending on if they give me credit, i mean i wonder how well they can narrow my range if i flat instead of iso?
    anyway id love more input, but as for the result, i called, everyone else folded and Romeplayer ended up having A9o and held,
    after reading all this i can see this is a pretty small edge to take and i should have folded this, but what was going on in my head at the time was that i figured i was ahead of his 2.5bb shoving range so thats why i elected to call. i didnt reshove simply because someone may have woken up with a hand behind me(though i know if i reshove it narrows their calling range down massively), and even if i get reshoved on and am forced to fold i'm still left with 10bbs and a very good feel for the table dynamic which in this structure is fine for me and still gives me a decent chance to at least make top 3 if not more.
    Edited By: BelieveIt Nov 27th, 2011 at 11:22 AM
    Thread Starter
  25. Max Cut Max Cut is offline

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    Nov 27th, 2011 (11/27/2011 5:08pm) in reply to BelieveIt

    Horrible kicker is horrible. I'm not sure I would even open shove this and the CO has to be really wide for it to be better than open-shoving.
    Edited By: Max Cut Nov 27th, 2011 at 05:09 PM
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