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FTP chop is absolute garbage

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  1. Chickenbrad Chickenbrad is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 5:27am)

    Does anyone else think it's ridiculous that the chop shows what your stack is worth according to ICM? The last thing they need is to introduce the average poker player to a concept they absolutely don't understand and could potentially make them better.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the concept. I just hate the fact that they work out the numbers for you.
  2. andressoprano andressoprano is offline whaddya think of my game?

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 5:34am) in reply to Chickenbrad

    They do it so noobs don't get scammed/angle shooted by regulars. I find it to be a very good thing. They're not gonna get better at poker because of it, but it will prevent from having more people out there saying "online poker is full of cheaters" after realize that some scumbag fucked them up.
     1
  3. Chickenbrad Chickenbrad is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 5:37am) in reply to andressoprano

    That's a good point, although in poker I think an edge can be gained in anything and you should be able to if you have the ability. Why not just put up ICM odds during the entire tourney so everyone knows what their hand is worth, that way better players can't take advantage of fish? It's the same thing IMO.
    Thread Starter
  4. MarkFSU1 MarkFSU1 is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 5:40am) in reply to Chickenbrad

     
    Originally Posted by Chickenbrad View Post

    That's a good point, although in poker I think an edge can be gained in anything and you should be able to if you have the ability. Why not just put up ICM odds during the entire tourney so everyone knows what their hand is worth, that way better players can't take advantage of fish? It's the same thing IMO.

    only way they could do this is if the site basically told you what everyone else is holding and what would be the point of that...although i do kind of agree with the fact that giving bad players info at the end is a disadvantage to the good player...the real reason ftp set it up like this is because they just do not have the service that stars has to have a person on hand at all times to quickly run to the table and do it, its just more convenient for ftp to do it this way
     
  5. andressoprano andressoprano is offline whaddya think of my game?

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 5:47am) in reply to Chickenbrad

    Again: This is not making them better players, so your analogy is wrong. It is a tool to prevent shady behaviors, not to help them play a hand.
     1
  6. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 5:50am) in reply to Chickenbrad

    I've always been against any suggested chip chop numbers by any staff member or site. Deal function is good, but let the players figure it out.
  7. andressoprano andressoprano is offline whaddya think of my game?

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 5:58am) in reply to Jennifear

    Meh, I'm too old school
     1
  8. MarkFSU1 MarkFSU1 is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 6:03am) in reply to Jennifear

     
    Originally Posted by Jennifear View Post

    Deal function is good, but let the players figure it out.

     
  9. threeven threeven is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 6:05am) in reply to MarkFSU1

     
    Originally Posted by MarkFSU1 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Jennifear View Post

    Deal function is good, but let the players figure it out.

    deals wouldn't happen this way, negotiating would take forever
    2
  10. Livew1re Livew1re is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 6:25am) in reply to threeven

    i like the idea of being able to make deals, im going to move all my cash to FTP from Jokerstars asap.
  11. poker4jab poker4jab is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 7:04am) in reply to andressoprano

     
    Originally Posted by andressoprano View Post

    Again: This is not making them better players, so your analogy is wrong. It is a tool to prevent shady behaviors, not to help them play a hand.

    I would not call trying to get a larger portion of cash from a chop "shady," part of the game man. Personally I am anti the new chop buttons.
  12. rebelfd rebelfd is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 7:09am) in reply to Chickenbrad

     
    Originally Posted by Chickenbrad View Post

    the chop shows

    Hidden brag that you made a final table?
  13. JackBlack JackBlack is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 8:44am) in reply to rebelfd

     
    Originally Posted by rebelfd View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Chickenbrad View Post

    the chop shows

    Hidden brag that you made a final table?

    Meh it was prob a HU SNG
  14. kellykip kellykip is offline The Chosen One

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 9:09am) in reply to andressoprano

     
    Originally Posted by andressoprano View Post

    They do it so noobs don't get scammed/angle shooted by regulars. I find it to be a very good thing. They're not gonna get better at poker because of it, but it will prevent from having more people out there saying "online poker is full of cheaters" after realize that some scumbag fucked them up.

    Couldn't agree more.
  15. Hitman Hitman is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 9:52am) in reply to kellykip

    Please explain how negotiating a deal for yourself that is better than ICM is angleshooting? Think about that statement... you've just called thousands, no,tens of thousands, of very stand up people angleshooters. Just wow Andres.

    And Sketchy Wretchy was different, he agreed to a deal and by the time stars support showed up he renigged on it... THAT is angleshooting, classless, douchebag. If there was a deal function it would have PREVENTED the sketchyism, because the deal HE AGREED TO would have been completed, he wouldn't have been able to conveniently change his mind after doubling through and taking the chip lead. A deal function sans ICM would have worked just fine to prevent this shaddiness.
  16. Hitman Hitman is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 10:12am) in reply to Hitman

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    Please explain how negotiating a deal for yourself that is better than ICM is angleshooting? Think about that statement... you've just called thousands, no,tens of thousands, of very stand up people angleshooters. Just wow Andres.

    Edit: You just called AJKHoosier an angleshooter, since he negotiated a very favorable deal for himself in a major WCOOP event. Please explain.
  17. Livew1re Livew1re is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 10:16am) in reply to Hitman

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    Please explain how negotiating a deal for yourself that is better than ICM is angleshooting? Think about that statement... you've just called thousands, no,tens of thousands, of very stand up people angleshooters. Just wow Andres.

    Edit: You just called AJKHoosier an angleshooter, since he negotiated a very favorable deal for himself in a major WCOOP event. Please explain.

  18. adamsapple19 adamsapple19 is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 10:32am) in reply to Chickenbrad

    i think fishes will be so excited to be chopping a tourney (since they rarely get deep) that they won't even be paying attention to anything except the money they'll get.

    i wouldn't worry a great deal about bad players learning anything from the auto-chop experience.
     
  19. Dead Money Dom Dead Money Dom is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 11:14am) in reply to Chickenbrad

    i think choppin is for pussys anyway.
     
  20. the_snail03 the_snail03 is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 11:17am) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    I used to enjoy the fact that you couldn't chop on ftp....made me play it more as a game so to speak. Plus I am rlly bad at chopping.
     
  21. andressoprano andressoprano is offline whaddya think of my game?

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 11:57am) in reply to Hitman

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    Please explain how negotiating a deal for yourself that is better than ICM is angleshooting? Think about that statement... you've just called thousands, no,tens of thousands, of very stand up people angleshooters. Just wow Andres.

    Edit: You just called AJKHoosier an angleshooter, since he negotiated a very favorable deal for himself in a major WCOOP event. Please explain.

    stars support gave them the chip/chop count. With all the info available, players negotiated.
     1
  22. nickj7777 nickj7777 is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 12:10pm) in reply to andressoprano

     
    Originally Posted by andressoprano View Post

    They do it so noobs don't get scammed/angle shooted by regulars. I find it to be a very good thing. They're not gonna get better at poker because of it, but it will prevent from having more people out there saying "online poker is full of cheaters" after realize that some scumbag fucked them up.

    i guess you pay sticker price for a new car.........
  23. needmoney needmoney is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 1:17pm) in reply to andressoprano

     
    Originally Posted by andressoprano View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    Please explain how negotiating a deal for yourself that is better than ICM is angleshooting? Think about that statement... you've just called thousands, no,tens of thousands, of very stand up people angleshooters. Just wow Andres.

    Edit: You just called AJKHoosier an angleshooter, since he negotiated a very favorable deal for himself in a major WCOOP event. Please explain.

    stars support gave them the chip/chop count. With all the info available, players negotiated.

    ^^^^ THIS. Andres obviously understands that what is more important is to make sure the fish get a fair shake. Stars has been making that a priority for a while now and tilt is sure to make that 1st and foremost in their book also.

    Face it you guys, they are WAYYYY MORE IMPORTANT to these sites then guys that rely on the fish for income. In the long run it is their business that they/you NEED/WANT. 1. I dont think it makes them better players and 2. they dont give a shit if it does or not.
  24. ApesAreFun ApesAreFun is offline Moderator/Euro Donk

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 3:40pm) in reply to andressoprano

     
    Originally Posted by andressoprano View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    Please explain how negotiating a deal for yourself that is better than ICM is angleshooting? Think about that statement... you've just called thousands, no,tens of thousands, of very stand up people angleshooters. Just wow Andres.

    Edit: You just called AJKHoosier an angleshooter, since he negotiated a very favorable deal for himself in a major WCOOP event. Please explain.

    stars support gave them the chip/chop count. With all the info available, players negotiated.

    Andress speaks the truth..! OP analogy is wrong!

    EDIT: Who quotes themself? LOL!
     906 
  25. Limo Wreck Limo Wreck is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 4:14pm) in reply to Chickenbrad

    I believe it is possible for players to continue to negotiate even after learning what their chip stack is worth. The ICM numbers given are a guideline, there is no requirement to use them.
    Ex: 3 handed 1 fish with the big stack wants to chop vs. 2 regs. Regs can use the leverage of their poker skill to agree to a favorable chop, regardless of ICM. Fish may agree to give up some equity just to lock in a big payout vs. 2 tough opponents.
  26. can_am69 can_am69 is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 4:24pm) in reply to Limo Wreck

     
    Originally Posted by Limo Wreck View Post

    I believe it is possible for players to continue to negotiate even after learning what their chip stack is worth. The ICM numbers given are a guideline, there is no requirement to use them.
    Ex: 3 handed 1 fish with the big stack wants to chop vs. 2 regs. Regs can use the leverage of their poker skill to agree to a favorable chop, regardless of ICM. Fish may agree to give up some equity just to lock in a big payout vs. 2 tough opponents.

    winner winner chicken lunch
  27. ApesAreFun ApesAreFun is offline Moderator/Euro Donk

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 4:26pm) in reply to Limo Wreck

     
    Originally Posted by Limo Wreck View Post

    I believe it is possible for players to continue to negotiate even after learning what their chip stack is worth. The ICM numbers given are a guideline, there is no requirement to use them.
    Ex: 3 handed 1 fish with the big stack wants to chop vs. 2 regs. Regs can use the leverage of their poker skill to agree to a favorable chop, regardless of ICM. Fish may agree to give up some equity just to lock in a big payout vs. 2 tough opponents.

    Yeah, just like party does :)
     906 
  28. heynow21 heynow21 is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 4:27pm) in reply to Hitman

     
    Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    And Sketchy Wretchy was different, he agreed to a deal and by the time stars support showed up he renigged on it...

    Racism.
     
  29. JLizard JLizard is offline Grand Zu Wizard in Training

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 4:35pm) in reply to Chickenbrad

    Thought it was pretty cool that you couldnt chop on FTP personally. Would Phil Ivey chop?? Ceruesly duat it.
    329 6
  30. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2009 (7/31/2009 4:44pm) in reply to Jennifear

     
    Originally Posted by Jennifear View Post

    I've always been against any suggested chip chop numbers by any staff member or site.

    I disagree. I think some default numbers should be given to work from, so negotiations will go faster. Personally I don't feel like having to look up numbers everytime I FT something (which is never, fwiw).

    I know some people are upset because now the noobs have a better understanding of how much their stack is worth. But god forbid they can't angleshoot their way into more profits.
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