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TO FULL TILT POKER...EXPLAIN BOTS FREE TO OPERATE ON YOUR SITE! *UPDATED*

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  1. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 11:35am)

    ADDRESS THE PROBLEM OF BOTS PLAYING OUT IN THE OPEN, ON YOUR SITE , AND ON THE MOST POPULAR NL CASH GAME LEVELS!!!!

    From the 2+2 ORIGINAL POSTER - He has done his homework....with a 3rd party software as a tool for the discovery.

    FTP internal software for tracking players is I ASSUME much better? Hands can be seen for all players in the hand/seated. The OP's data ALONE is proof.

    To let the owner/s continue to play is a total mockery and leads one to assume that the FTP staff/site encourages this type of behavior on their site.

    I am totally disgusted. I for one will FLOOD every NL lvl from .5-1 to 3-6 NL on FTP for the next 4 weeks with the link to this 2+2 post. Something must be done.

    And like all BIG BUSINESSes the only way to get a message across is to ATTACK the said business's BOTTOM LINE. I want the CS dept email FLOODED with this concern. I want the paranoid to GET MORE PARANOID.

    I WANT ACTION AND I WANT IT NOW.

    If any fellow p5'er feels the same I suggest you follow my lead and flood as many chat boxes on these lvls as you can!!!

    Here's the 2+2 link below copy and paste it all day....

    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...art=1&vc=1

    WarCrimes Out!!

    PS: This exact post will be duplicated at the other 12+ poker forumns I visit daily!!!
  2. quarterchips quarterchips is offline

    MN
    United States

    Posts: 14
    Joined: Jan 07

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 11:50am) in reply to WarCrimes

    Damn it, Quarterchips is MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD now. Get the pitchforks and torches out!!!!!
  3. JeepRounder0 JeepRounder0 is offline

    South Bend, IN
    United States

    Posts: 574
    Joined: Oct 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 12:55pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    you visit 12 poker forums daily?
  4. Aces_Up Aces_Up is offline

    Mount Pearl
    Canada

    Posts: 272
    Joined: May 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 1:05pm) in reply to JeepRounder0

    Excellent idea to post that link on all the low limit tables at Full
    Tilt.

    You will either:

    (a) Frighten away inexperienced players who do not want to
    play with bots.

    (b) Lead them towards poker forums and educate them on how
    to become better players.

    Please share more of your great ideas with us.
  5. Earlybird893 Earlybird893 is offline

    Posts: 9,017
    Joined: Feb 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 1:07pm) in reply to Aces_Up

    You will either:

    (a) Frighten away inexperienced players who do not want to
    play with bots.

    (b) Lead them towards poker forums and educate them on how
    to become better players.

    well said
  6. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 2:17pm) in reply to Aces_Up

    a) .5-1 and upto 3-6 nl is considered low limit? hmmm i guess ~ 10k monthly$ is peanuts and low limit

    and as they leave FTP OTHER ROOMS WILL GET THEM

    b) yes wow now they know 2+2 exists, unless they ever bought a book from 2+2 , plus they still have to do their own homwwork to get better, and we ALL KNOW most fish KNOW there is INFO out there they just care nothing for "WASTING" time reading or makin their game better. ITS JUST LUCK AFTERALL FOR MOST PLAYERS

    go flame elsewhere troll
    Thread Starter
  7. MSU-ATO MSU-ATO is offline

    Morganfield, KY
    United States

    Posts: 634
    Joined: Dec 05

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 2:24pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    Yes those are low limit games.
  8. msuper73 msuper73 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 743
    Joined: Oct 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 2:27pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    who really gives a shit about bots?? visit winholdem forums and 99% of the posts are " how the hell do I get my bot to stop pushing all in with 7-2 or why does my bot insist on folding to an allin river bet when Im getting 40:1 on my money with the stone nuts??" other good ones include.. "which should i learn first-- poker or programming" and "I'll trade programming help for poker strategy help". I believe its about 90% of poker players are losing players. Im guessing about 99% of bot programmers are unprofitable. I say keep at it. BRING ME MORE BOTS!!!
  9. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 2:40pm) in reply to msuper73

    Guess your missing the ENTIRE point!

    The point IS NOT whether the the bots are profitable. We know most are certainly not, usually AT BEST they usually make .25/bb per hr on low, low limit holdem games. AGAIN NOT THE POINT AT ALL...guess some failed in READING COMPREHENSION at school....anyhow....

    THE POINT IS A TOP 5 POKER ROOM IS ALLOWING, YES KNOWINGLY ALLOWING, NON-PLAYER BOTS OPENLY TO OPERATE IN THEIR CASH GAMES!!!

    WHETHER THEY MAKE A PROFIT IS UNIMPORTANT; FTP KNOWINGLY LETTING THEM PLAY VS UNKNOWNING MEMBERS FOR REAL MONEY IS IMPORTANT

    FTP NEEDS TO MAKE A STATEMENT ON THIS >>>

    EITHER FTP ALLOWS BOTS TO OPERATE IN THERE REAL CASH GAMES OR THEY DO NOT ALLOW THEM!!!

    ps: REMEMBER KIDDIES...reading (...and its comprehension ) are fundamental....dont do drugs either....

    =)
    Thread Starter
  10. msuper73 msuper73 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 743
    Joined: Oct 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 2:52pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    I got your point... apparently you missed mine though... Ill repeat it for you...WHO GIVES A SHIT?!!
  11. Aces_Up Aces_Up is offline

    Mount Pearl
    Canada

    Posts: 272
    Joined: May 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 2:58pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    I probably shouldn't even bother, but I'm bored, so I will. You can respond if you want, but this will be my last reply to you in this thread.

    (1) For truly inexperienced players, they are just as likely to quit poker then go to another poker room.

    (2) Not everyone knows there is a wealth of information out there, contrary to what you may think.

    (3) Just because I don't have 700+ posts doesn't mean I am a troll. I state my opinion when I feel it makes a point. Also, the fact that you felt the need to both respond to my post and send me a misguided PM makes the fact that you consider me a troll quite amusing.

    (4) When insulting the intelligence of others, you may want to work on eliminating all the caps from your post and using something bordering on proper punctuation.
  12. Zelk Zelk is offline

    Aberdeen, SD
    United States

    Posts: 505
    Joined: Mar 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 3:02pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    WarCrimes, I had already strated a post to this and FTPdoug responded. Basicallly, saying that FT did not have 100% proof and therefore chose not to close accounts. Here is the link

    http://www.pocketfives.com/A95ECDC1-...882E09E59.aspx

    WarCrimes, just treat this like you would a Casino you don't trust. If you feel unsafe with your money there just stop playing.
  13. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 3:25pm) in reply to Zelk

    I trust FTP... and I love their site....I play there, I maintain an account here.

    I just want a disclosure if they do OR Do Not allow this activity...

    OBV i believe the answer is no....then why let said account/s still operate?

    At the very least they could do something like party poker did where a box popped up and ask for you to type in the predetermined text ...then players would know at least something about bot prevention is taking place.

    I dont think any bot could beat me in NLHE...but I would like to know if I am possibly playing with them?

    Also I read your link...but FTPDoug doesnt really disclose anything useful?

    Do you have a link for the response the guilty party posted?

    Thanks in advance
    Thread Starter
  14. stealth stealth is offline

    Jacksonville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 177
    Joined: May 07

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 3:35pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    who gives a crap about bots, chances are you not playing one.

    If you do, big deal.....you're telling me you can't beat a computer software? Go play WSOP on xbox360, its not hard.

    Computers are very good at many things, better then humans, but I don't think poker is one of them. So they know the odds, but so do we. They also can't read betting patterns and learn player types, and the way they play.

    You guys are making a big deal over nothing. Bots are dead money imho, only difference is that they can play longer hours and don't go on tilt.
  15. dare92 dare92 is offline

    Newport, ME
    United States

    Posts: 593
    Joined: Dec 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 6:17pm) in reply to stealth

    Do what I do, don't play there. And stop wasting your time to get people to think like you. Just go play at stars and be thankful you're not playing nits all day.
  16. jackaaron jackaaron is offline

    Mansfield, OH
    United States

    Posts: 2,653
    Joined: Dec 05

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 6:28pm) in reply to dare92

    To reiterate:http://www.pocketfives.com/76A9BF18-...23A330D35.aspx
  17. Zophar Zophar is offline

    Red Hook, NY
    United States

    Posts: 20
    Joined: Jun 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 6:36pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    The original poster(suckitTrebek) has a problem with bots at the tables he plays yet he leaves his system running to datamine the same tables while he's not playing. His primary goal being to gain info on those that regularly play the stakes. Why is a bot w/out any deviation patterns any worse than a data miner whose primary goal is to know every persons playing style and patterns before he even sits at the table with them using information that is basically only privy to him and a select few that do the same? Isn't that an unfair advantage? I'd personally rather play a bot that has no info on me than someone who has all of my info and I don't know it.
  18. DexterCain DexterCain is offline

    Posts: 13,456
    Joined: Aug 05

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 6:38pm) in reply to Zophar

    You will either:

    (a) Frighten away inexperienced players who do not want to
    play with bots.

    (b) Lead them towards poker forums and educate them on how
    to become better players.
  19. crazywhite21 crazywhite21 is offline

    Oviedo, FL
    United States

    Posts: 926
    Joined: Mar 06

    May 16th, 2007 (5/16/2007 6:40pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    Whats wrong with using bots? i(we) 16 table 3/6 fixed on ftp and make about 2bbs/100

    bots
  20. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 4:20pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    UPDATE:

    Here's an interesting site all should have a peek at...

    http://www.destroythebots.com/index.htm

    Not only are there 200NL$ bots on FTP but there are HI CASH GAME "LIMIT" HOLDEM BOTS OPERATING FREELY
    Thread Starter
  21. betbrett betbrett is offline

    United States

    Posts: 2,344
    Joined: Apr 05

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 4:24pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    I enjoy playing bots and wish they were on all sites.
  22. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 4:27pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    to betbrett and any other clueless players this why bots ARE BAD FOR PRO " HUMAN "PLAYERS

    Why should you care about possible bots playing at heads-up tables? Here's what 2+2er Gildwulf has to say:
    <BLOCKQUOTE>The amount of money going into the Full Tilt HU economy is extremely limited. It doesn't matter if you can beat a bot for 0.25bb/100 if his "exploitable" strategy is raping the fish 100 hours a week for 2bb/100. One bot is annoying; a dozen bots and that is a significant amount of money taken out of an economy that is not big enough to handle that kind of fish farming. </BLOCKQUOTE>
    NB: Heads-up poker is the form of the game where bots are the most formidable, in which mathematical analysis and game theory can make a programmed player's game virtually unassailable.
    Thread Starter
  23. betbrett betbrett is offline

    United States

    Posts: 2,344
    Joined: Apr 05

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 5:08pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    I may be clueless, who knows. What I do know is that I enjoy playing a predictable oponent who plays the same way all the time.

    I don't play much heads up either.
  24. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 5:16pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    <SPAN>p5's member " ZELK "'s blog...with Zelk's permission.

    you can see his blog at the following:

    <SPAN>http://zelksblog.blogspot.com/</SPAN>

    This post is extremely long but WELL WORTH THE READ....its a summary of over a 2000 post thread from 2+2....

    If you do not read it all please do not make post any response to it.

    You will only be doing the p5's community a diservice....

    </SPAN>
    Thread Starter
  25. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 5:19pm) in reply to betbrett

    Hey betbrett...you may be able to beat a bot in NL holdem....I know I can but...

    but the fish that provide the ENTIRE EARNING population of poker players is being OVER fished....

    so since you can beat them DOES NOT mean a clueless fish can....

    so basically there is LESS MONEY floating around for us when we sit down in a game.

    Still hasnt got through yet????
    Thread Starter
  26. Skywalker18 Skywalker18 is offline

    Philadelphia, PA
    United States

    Posts: 5,994
    Joined: May 05

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 5:24pm) in reply to Zophar

    Full Tilt allows datmining, so what he is doing is endorsed by the site, there is no gray area.

    Bots, on the other hand, are not permitted, so allowing them to play is a bit of a lie on FTP's part.
  27. Zach418 Zach418 is offline

    Oklahoma City, OK
    United States

    Posts: 49
    Joined: May 07

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 5:25pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    You can take the caps lock off. We can read lower case letters too, bro.
  28. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 5:26pm) in reply to Skywalker18

    ^^^^ correct

    At the very least these players are a "sweatshop" playing 24/7 over fishing the FTP tables using a scripted computer program.....basically a BOT is making the decisions and a human is clicking the button on FTP software
    Thread Starter
  29. WarCrimes WarCrimes is offline

    Fair Lawn, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 845
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    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 5:29pm) in reply to Zach418

    thx...that added nicely to this thread

    thanks for your participation
    Thread Starter
  30. Mort Mort is offline

    Schmargendorf
    Germany

    Posts: 265
    Joined: Sep 06

    May 17th, 2007 (5/17/2007 9:29pm) in reply to WarCrimes

    Well, maybe if this thread had a purpose people would bother posting actual reponses.

    As you're not saying anything new (no -- writing in caps doesn't make it new. Just annoying) people are taking potshots.

    And I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. There are tons of threads on this topic already. Either you read them all and just didn't get them so need to have it explained to you again, you're just need the attention.
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