[x]

See Where You Rank in Washington

  1.  
    Originally Posted by elimherr View Post

    your assumption is correct was talking about the action on turn

    I was asking about the turn action...
    Edited By: Dyzalot Feb 7th, 2011 at 02:12 AM
    Reason: clarity
     3
  2.  
    Originally Posted by doubledave22 View Post

    if ur gonna mash it in post flop then yes its bad

    nits unite!

    and obv not just looking to "mash it in there"
    Edited By: MarleyGroup Feb 7th, 2011 at 03:58 AM
     
  3. I would check turn for pot control because if he doesn't already have you crushed he's prob folding everything less. Call/ bet most rivers for value.
  4.  
    Originally Posted by MarleyGroup View Post

    nits unite!

    and obv not just looking to "mash it in there"

    think he was referring to OP. obv 3b is fine but if your gonna spew off your stack like OP did than flatting would be better
    2
  5. Calm down everyone... You guys were really close to having a real strategy conversation about 3betting JJ pre early
     
  6.  
    Originally Posted by MarleyGroup View Post

    nits unite!

    and obv not just looking to "mash it in there"


    Hah mashed potatoes no big deal......

     
    Originally Posted by SJUHawks18 View Post

    Calm down everyone... You guys were really close to having a real strategy conversation about 3betting JJ prep early


    o jeez
  7. <3 sirswish6
     
  8.  
    Originally Posted by premierw View Post

    When you're gboro, peeling one means turning a set.


    lol
  9. lab rat u levelin? i cant tell
  10.  
    Originally Posted by doubledave22 View Post

    if ur gonna mash it in post flop then yes its bad

    Everyone is looking at the negative side, which is that the dude with JJ makes a very leaky decision on the turn. The upside to making the 3bet pre is that on a good flop (which happens occasionally) the pot will be larger and JJ ends up with a bigger take. I know that this turns JJ into a set mining hand, but all pocket pairs are effectively set mining hands early in mtts if you're playing post flop. You and the others suggest flatting preflop is the superior line,...in which case the downside is everyone and their mother gets into the pot for 76 chips and then you're still playing to set mine for a jack and to dodge draws.

    I am with MurphyGroup, the three bet is needed for isolation at least, even you can't get too much information out Gboro's reaction. The bet size was improper for isolation, but I think a 3bet here is a better play than flatting.
     
    Raise
  11. geebs is shooting the bucks and smokin on that bruce bruce....
     
  12.  
    Originally Posted by the real roks View Post

    lab rat u levelin? i cant tell


    Just think it's a flat pre with the Jacks that deep. If Gboro 4 bets to 555 then what are you doing?
  13. then you flat. no sense in five betting. against Gboro, you don't really get much quality info with raises so you never really know where you are in this hand.
     
  14.  
    Originally Posted by The Lab Rat View Post

    Just think it's a flat pre with the Jacks that deep. If Gboro 4 bets to 555 then what are you doing?

    agreed, we do not want to 3b/f such a value hand this early 3b/c would be worse....

    flat pre, pot control postflop unless we smash the board is my std line here @ 15/30
  15. 3betting jj is standard, just because you don't have to do it, it doesn't mean it isn't a viable line especially that deep. Cash game players don't flat jj's and there's a reason. It's obviously a raise for value, how often do you think gboro is 4betting a rando 3 betor that deep.
     1
    Raise
  16.  
    Originally Posted by bustarimes View Post


    I am with MurphyGroup

    terrific thread, gtr wins, but this gets honorable mention
     
  17. gboro will 4b in this exact spot versus a random probably less than 5% of the time. It certainly should only be a tiny tiny factor in determining how you want to construct ur 3b range in a spot like this.

    I think as OP, versus gboro, a very strong argument could be made for 3betting almost your entire continuing range in this spot, especially if he is peeling this wide.
    Raise
  18. good lookin' out
     
  19. looooooolz
  20.  
    Originally Posted by Illini213 View Post

    i fold pre... its gboro!

    The only person that has it right. One of the many reasons why Illini rapes.
     1
  21. Nice suckout Saul
  22. to the real roks

    agree, but I think he will adjust, so you'll have to account for that. i would argue that against a complete random 3bet, he might never be 4betting light until the random gives him a reason to. This is probably why he peeled with 33's purely to set mine against what he perceives as a uber strong 3 betting range jj+ak. And peels the flop thinking random won't double barrel without an overpair.

    So I think, it's completely fine at the beginning to 3bet him plenty wide in position, but adjust after each interaction.
     1
    Raise
  23. i love you guys
    Thread Starter
  24. gboro is the only person who has ever gotten me to drink Patron
  25. 3 betting pre verse a player like that is narrowing your range so fucking thin and unless you decide to play the flop or turn tricky, you are never ever getting value from worse. OP just needs to chk back the turn cause Boro isn't giving 3 streets with less than JJ. Pretty simple.

    And flatting pre seems so much better than 3 betting
     
    Raise
  26.  
    Originally Posted by thecronic420 View Post

    geebs is shooting the bucks and smokin on that bruce bruce....


    lol..theres's your answer OP.

    the_dean22 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  27.  
    Originally Posted by darkhawk-200 View Post

    to the real roks

    agree, but I think he will adjust, so you'll have to account for that. i would argue that against a complete random 3bet, he might never be 4betting light until the random gives him a reason to. This is probably why he peeled with 33's purely to set mine against what he perceives as a uber strong 3 betting range jj+ak. And peels the flop thinking random won't double barrel without an overpair.

    So I think, it's completely fine at the beginning to 3bet him plenty wide in position, but adjust after each interaction.

    i love this...well stated
  28.  
    Originally Posted by The Lab Rat View Post

    You're 3 bet pre is really bad

    Yeah because you are never getting called with anything that you can beat....oh wait....
     
  29. Its the strategy posts in threads like this that make me realize how beatable poker is longterm lol...some of this stuff is hilarious. More fixed plans in a vacuum please.

    Marley and roks only guys who have posted that aren't doomed.
    Edited By: Drewfus81 Feb 7th, 2011 at 05:32 PM
    Raise
  30. I don't think it's right or wrong to 3b....i personally think preflop can go either way, flatting and 3b are both good (depending on exact game flow at that moment, you should vary the two), and both have merits for and against. 3b pre is usually good because you are in position, way ahead of his opening range, and getting more money into the pot with what is likely to be the best hand. Downside to this...hands like exactly what happened here occur... u inflate the pot, and allow gboro to make you stack off with ur overpairs when he hits sets. someone else also mentioned, ur 3b for value(get in) range is so narrow here (JJ is borderline and its def QQ+ and AK), that it's easy for steve to play postflop against a small perceived set of hands that he puts you on.

    reasons for flatting pre, u keep the pot sized down against a great player, play in posiiton, and most importantly, you will be severely underrepped, (when u just flat here, steve has FAR less an idea what kind of hands you have, and will be guessing way more often OOP against you). The downside to flatting, you will often have to give up on A/K high boards, and/or pressure from Steve...but you shouldn't be able to lose too much this way (or get stacked for that matter).

    on to the actual hand, i think you should fold to the turn c/r, you are beating absolutely nothing and he has a set or AA so often after the c/r, and NEVER TT
    Raise

Similar Threads