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Getting away from aces/dodging sets

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  1. BlueRenegade BlueRenegade is offline

    Vancouver, WA
    United States

    Posts: 58
    Joined: Jul 09

    Dec 10th, 2009 (12/10/2009 1:14pm)

    OK, this question is for all my fellow donkament players...we've all been on both sides of this, where we're the guy who flops a set and stacks the villain holding AA...and where WE'RE the guy with AA who GETS stacked by the guy who flops the set.

    My question is this: in these $5 and under 3000+ player MTTs, far from the money, where people seem to be holding damn near anything, how do you get away from your Aces? I mean, you get a two-suited board like 10-5-2 after sticking in a healthy pre-flop raise, and you get somebody betting into you post-flop...I've seen everything from T9, flush draw, or just nothing from people who put you on AK...but when you stack off and the other guy shows you 55 (or 22), is that just one of those "that's poker" things? Or should you just be shoving AA pre-flop after a bunch of limpers, and hope the guy with 55 calls you BEFORE he flops his set?

    Like I said, I've been on both sides...but if anybody has any suggestions, I'd love to hear em. I mean, I've read every book I can get my hands on, but the people who wrote them have apparently either never played a $3.30 MTT on stars, or have forgotten what it's like. I'd like some opinions from fellow p5'ers who play the low limits.

    Thanks,

    Blue
  2. wolfferine wolfferine is offline

    MI
    United States

    Posts: 190
    Joined: Aug 07

    Dec 10th, 2009 (12/10/2009 1:47pm) in reply to BlueRenegade

    It's taken 3 years of playing, and I'm still very FAR from being an expert
    on this, but I take all these things into consideration:

    how many people in the hand? If it's HU, I'm more likely to stack off,
    rather than being 4 handed after I raise and 4 limpers call to see a flop.

    What are our respective stack sizes? If I'm very deep and it's early in
    a tourney, I'm more apt to laying AA down. Although it's still tough.

    Table image of the player calling/betting into me.

    Board texture.

    Gut feelings.

    I take all those things and basically try to paint a picture of the hand in
    my head, putting my opponent(s) on likely ranges, and then reacting
    accordingly.
  3. DaPretzel DaPretzel is offline

    IA
    United States

    Posts: 1,230
    Joined: Oct 06

    Dec 10th, 2009 (12/10/2009 1:58pm) in reply to BlueRenegade

     
    Originally Posted by BlueRenegade View Post

    but when you stack off and the other guy shows you 55 (or 22), is that just one of those "that's poker" things?

    If you're perceptive enough you should be able to put opponents on a range of hands. If the villain in the hand is betting a certain way and you feel like AA is ahead of that range, you should be putting all your money in, and if he shows up with the 55, that's poker. It's just like when you have KK in the big blind and are praying for action, and it folds around to the small blind, who shoves, and you're like THANK GOD, because he could be shoving like ANYTHING, but he shows up with AA. Just unfortunate that you ran into the very top of his range. Just because he had a set that one time doesn't mean he wouldn't have played a flush draw or top pair with a good kicker the exact same way.

    In a low limit tournament, I'd say it's almost impossible to narrow any random player's range to a set on a semi-tame looking flop. In a deepstacked high-limit tournament, it's way more possible to pick up on some patterns that would make you feel like AA is beat. But in a low-limit tournament, it's just a cooler.
     
  4. Mike111202 Mike111202 is offline

    La Grange Park, IL
    United States

    Posts: 140
    Joined: Apr 08

    Dec 10th, 2009 (12/10/2009 2:03pm) in reply to BlueRenegade

     
    Originally Posted by BlueRenegade View Post

    Or should you just be shoving AA pre-flop after a bunch of limpers, and hope the guy with 55 calls you BEFORE he flops his set?

    Either way you go broke right? In micro stakes MTT's I try not to over think the situation. If it's 4 handed on the flop I might fold but heads up definately not.
  5. BlueRenegade BlueRenegade is offline

    Vancouver, WA
    United States

    Posts: 58
    Joined: Jul 09

    Dec 10th, 2009 (12/10/2009 5:27pm) in reply to Mike111202

     
    Originally Posted by Mike111202 View Post

    Either way you go broke right? In micro stakes MTT's I try not to over think the situation. If it's 4 handed on the flop I might fold but heads up definately not.

    I stated that badly. I didn't mean just that particular hand, I meant in general...shoving pre-flop over limpers in hopes of getting calls from lesser hands, which of course won't mostly flop sets.

    In this particular hand, all 3 limpers called my raise, the first limper bets the pot after the flop and the other two folded...I shoved on him and got snapped by the trip 5's. We were about equal in chips (I had him slightly covered but not by much), and I had an average stack with an M of about 20.

    Too deep to shove there? I don't see how I can fold to one bet, although since it was basically pot-sized, maybe I could have, but I'm on the $3 tourney circuit for a reason, lol...I'm not Daniel Negreanu. If I just flat call it's about 25% of my stack, and I've got the same decision on the turn for another 25% or more...min-raise is 50% of my stack, maybe I can fold if he shoves on me after that, or flats and then shoves the turn? I hadn't seen the guy do anything absurd, so in low-limit land I guess that makes him somewhat conservative.

    Thanks for the advice and input, guys. Truly appreciated, any additional thoughts are welcomed.

    Blue
    Thread Starter
  6. Unworncoma Unworncoma is offline

    Leeds, AL
    United States

    Posts: 199
    Joined: Jul 06

    Dec 10th, 2009 (12/10/2009 6:48pm) in reply to BlueRenegade

    if the action is not big preflop.... if in position call and evaluate the turn, control the pot, do u really want to play an all in pot in a 3.30 with one pair on a scary board i promise you that there will be plenty of spots to get it in perfect. Granted though u cant fold the flop.. and 25% of your stack seems like a huge amount. But it is very easy to accumulate, in low stakes mtt's, even a 10bb stack is manageable, my main goal when i play these, is to win the majority of my hands without showdown, u need to post the hh, so i can see what your situation was when this hand went down
  7. random.chu random.chu is offline The People's Troll

    Adelaide
    Australia

    Posts: 1,270
    Joined: Aug 09

    Dec 10th, 2009 (12/10/2009 8:46pm) in reply to Unworncoma

    at micro stakes, it's just so hard to get away from aces. so many times you end up being against top pair, draws, smaller overpairs, or even things like AK.

    most of the time that I run in to a set, the villain won't bet it anyway. i'd still rather get all my chips in the middle early as more often than not, as they're usually overplaying tptk.
    228 1
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