pokerstars Game #11292667378: Tournament #56614445, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (2000/4000) - 2007/08/03 - 18:07:16 (ET)
Table '56614445 9' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Surfludde (79113 in chips)
Seat 2: Disgracer1 (39300 in chips)
Seat 3: mossified84 (161350 in chips)
Seat 5: claypole (117522 in chips)
Seat 6: Rabscuttle (55273 in chips)
Seat 7: jonathan123 (125517 in chips)
Seat 8: danjuluc (112084 in chips)
Seat 9: SCTrojans (163341 in chips)
Surfludde: posts the ante 400
Disgracer1: posts the ante 400
mossified84: posts the ante 400
claypole: posts the ante 400
Rabscuttle: posts the ante 400
jonathan123: posts the ante 400
danjuluc: posts the ante 400
SCTrojans: posts the ante 400
SCTrojans: posts small blind 2000
Surfludde: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SCTrojans [Qs Ah]
Disgracer1: folds
mossified84: raises 8000 to 12000
claypole: folds
Rabscuttle: folds
jonathan123: folds
danjuluc: folds
SCTrojans: raises 21500 to 33500
Surfludde: folds
mossified84: calls 21500
*** FLOP *** [7s 2c 2h]
SCTrojans: bets 37000
mossified84: calls 37000
*** TURN *** [7s 2c 2h] [Kd]
SCTrojans: checks
mossified84: checks
*** RIVER *** [7s 2c 2h Kd] [Qc]
SCTrojans: checks
mossified84: bets 90450 and is all-in
SCTrojans: calls 90450
SCTrojans said, "nh"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mossified84: shows [2d 2s] (four of a kind, Deuces)
SCTrojans: shows [Qs Ah] (two pair, Queens and Deuces)
SCTrojans said, "gross"
mossified84 collected 329100 from pot
jonathan123 said, "nh"
Disgracer1 said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 329100 | Rake 0
Board [7s 2c 2h Kd Qc]
Seat 1: Surfludde (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Disgracer1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: mossified84 showed [2d 2s] and won (329100) with four of a kind, Deuces
Seat 5: claypole folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Rabscuttle folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: jonathan123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: danjuluc (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: SCTrojans (small blind) showed [Qs Ah] and lost with two pair, Queens and Deuces

I just couldn't put him on a hand that beat me. I didn't think in a million years he would smooth call my re-raise with 22-77. I'm almost positive most of the top players wouldn't smooth call 22/77 here in a million years. Is that really a good spot to set-mine those hands? I have like 130k behind, its 22k more to him, and he has absolutely no guarantee of stacking me if he hits his hand. QQ/KK/AA I am 99% sure he would 4bet preflop. AK I think he 4bets preflop, and I also don't think he calls on the flop. I'm fairly certain he is capable of making a big bluff on that river with a hand like TT,JJ, AJ, or just making a huge play against me, I dunno, maybe I'm just a huge donkey, I just couldn't put him on 22/77 which I thought were the only hands that realistically beat me in that situation.

EDIT: I don't mean for this to sound rude, but this is definitely not a standard/normal call. I'd really appreciate input from players that think a little bit deeper / understand the game of poker at a higher level.

I'm guessing that he was putting you on high cards and was going to shove on an all low flop and then hit it big and let you do all the work, I don't know how he had been playing but, i'm assuming that when he hit the FT that he isn't going to shove that river unless he knows that he has you beat. I also think he would have bet the turn if he was going to try to bluff you.

Your game is sick man, so I hate giving any critique.

But it seems like since you are OOP, you could play the aq differently? Perhaps repopping more pre to compensate since youre looking to take this pot down now, rather than play an OOP 3 bet preflop pot with aq?

Just my two cents, although this is obv a rather unlucky flop for you, as it looks like youll take it down with your continuation bet with alot more flops than you wont.

Trojans,

Personally dont like the call here, too many hands beat u, to busy.

77,QQ,KK,KQ, AK, KJsooted, etc......

I think the K being out there woulda prevented me from calling off all of my chips. NEVER woulda put him on 22 though.
Found myself in a similar situation last nite, vs KRAZYKanuck, wouldnt mind your thoughts on that one, if your not to busy Hand hx is in the forum

That is all

Spider

No offense, but it's hard to argue that he didn't have implied odds now, cuz he obviously did.

You can't say I outplayed him when he stacked me in a re-raised pot and I had 2nd pair when I was like 2nd in chips.

He definitely folds KQ on that flop.

I think my single biggest flaw as a poker player is that I assume people play optimally at all times. I don't mean to sound cocky or conceited but I find myself saying "theres no way I would smooth call 22 or 77 pre, thats awful" - play according to what I feel is optimal play, and then make poor decisions when my opponents don't play that way.

i would have set mined in that spot w/ pos

well....assuming hes just set mining, then you def did outplay him. So wat if you paid him off, he had to get extremely lucky for that to happen. He's gonna have to take the pot away from you without a set a good amount of times for this to not be a +ev spot for you.

What sort of range are you putting him on for the IP call pre, then the flop call, then the turn check after you check? It seems like the optimal time to bluff is the turn, and even your flop bet, it was undersized in terms of the pot, but it still represents almost 1/4 of his stack. I just don't see many good players, as you consider him to be good, shoving that river if they can't beat AQ.

u shoulda gone all in on the river to find out where u were at lol

Raise more pf and fold river

I think what I've realized is that:
A) Im really bad
B) I need to understand that just because you can't think of a hand that realistically beats you, you need to be able to identify quite a few hands in his range that you actually beat. There isn't much I beat here even though I couldn't identify many hands that, when played correctly, have me beat in this spot.

Easy fold on the river I was just a big donkey and suck and everyone flame me please.

r u really considering moss as a top player??

conartist sums up my whole idea of you "outplaying" him in this hand. Straight up and down, you played your hand good, he played his bad (and this is mainly preflop, as its hard to gauge wat would happen in general postflop...i.e. what happens on a 379 flop). The only way this is profitable for him and not for you, is if he's gonna be able to bet you off your hand when you miss the flop, and its gonna have to be pretty often to make up for the lost ev, as you're very rarely gonna double him up postlop here(him flopping set, and you making ur hand)...

i agree the whole 22>AQ thing is just plain stupid, with the stacks late in these not being so deep, most of the poker takes place preflop, once you take control of this hand, he almost has to hit a set to be able to play confidently postflop

i dont think he coulda reraised more than like 1k more preflop cause he was gonna fold if the guy went over the top, i know the thinking behind every street, i think this guy is more likely to have a small pocket pair thats not 22/77 here and putting u on 99-JJ and trying to make u lay it down, its a very tough river call for the CL at a final table, gotta go with your gut more than anything... so not an awful call

and the guy should have folded preflop, no implied odds there