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  1. JAAAAA!!!! JAAAAA!!!! is offline

    Greenwich, CT
    United States

    Posts: 1,889
    Joined: Jan 07

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 1:17pm)

    I just found about about that site, and it really opened my eyes about the difference between a good player and a great player, even amongst the ranked players. I admit I only checked stars.

    Some of the highest ranked and highest regarded players around have lifetime ROIs hovering in the 30% range. Forgive me if I'm not enthused.

    Then there are the really good players that have ROIs up near 75-99%

    Then there are the great players with ROIs over 100%.

    There are some players with astronomical ROIs. They usually have some majors under their belt.

    I don't claim to be as good or better than any of the ranked players, including the ones around the 30% ROI level, and I don't know if I'd even break even playing the volume that they do, maybe not. I'm just saying I was more than suprised how ordinary some of the numbers were for many of the players that I was lead to believe are great at poker.
  2. sleepi sleepi is offline

    Webster, NY
    United States

    Posts: 521
    Joined: Sep 06

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 1:54pm) in reply to JAAAAA!!!!

    you know it doesn't take into account how many rebuys a player makes right?
  3. netgojustin netgojustin is offline

    Winnipeg
    Canada

    Posts: 537
    Joined: May 06

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 1:57pm) in reply to sleepi

    it takes the average ammout of rebuys and makes it the buyin... so a $22r if you are in for $22 it may think you are in for $60+
  4. JAAAAA!!!! JAAAAA!!!! is offline

    Greenwich, CT
    United States

    Posts: 1,889
    Joined: Jan 07

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 7:26pm) in reply to netgojustin

    So the buy in for the $100 rebuys is not $100, but whatever the average buy-in was for each individual tourney?

    I imagine that would make a pretty big difference.
    Thread Starter
  5. Carib Carib is offline

    United States

    Posts: 126
    Joined: May 07

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 7:43pm) in reply to JAAAAA!!!!

    If you're a player and you play Re-Buys and consider yourself a student of the game then all things considered you've already re-bought at least once. That said, then dont act as if OFFICIAL is being unfair with it's reporting. The R O I and I T M percentages say alot about the player . To co-sign the original post GOD Bless Official. We know sharkscopes Leader Boards are way out of whack . On another note... is anybody who's positive actually positive in Absolute SNG's ? Just curious ... that site has shady stuff

    regards
  6. xxjondxx xxjondxx is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 1,720
    Joined: Apr 07

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:08pm) in reply to JAAAAA!!!!

    i can respect anyone who can maintain a postive roi over a large sameple size
     11
  7. xxjondxx xxjondxx is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 1,720
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    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:08pm) in reply to Carib

    im pretty sure i have a postive roi on ap in sngs....
     11
  8. ShooterJ ShooterJ is offline

    Elizabeth, CO
    United States

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    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:16pm) in reply to JAAAAA!!!!

    There are some players with astronomical ROIs. They usually have some majors under their belt

    lol
  9. oscar 1 1 oscar 1 1 is offline

    Streamwood, IL
    United States

    Posts: 157
    Joined: Jul 07

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:29pm) in reply to ShooterJ

    would anyone run my roi for me? i would really appreciate it . tks again
  10. sp3685 sp3685 is offline

    Manalapan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 53
    Joined: Jun 06

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:30pm) in reply to oscar 1 1

    lol did you not understand the point of this thread? go to that website and you can find it for any player your heart desires
  11. rmoriar1 rmoriar1 is offline

    Notre Dame, IN
    United States

    Posts: 854
    Joined: Aug 07

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:34pm) in reply to sp3685

    look up the The_V0id i hear he has a decent roi
  12. Zpaceman Zpaceman is offline

    Spain

    Posts: 1,229
    Joined: Aug 06

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:38pm) in reply to JAAAAA!!!!

    the OPR stats are pretty good, but there is the rebuy issue. basically OPR (and pokerdb) uses the "average buy-in" in each rebuy tournament to compute each players profits/loss and roi. given the number of rebuy donators who bust before the break, don't rebuy/add-on, etc, most serious rebuy players tend to have a higher abi than the average and so their profits and roi are overestimated on opr and pokerdb.

    in the stars 100R, for example, they compute my profits based on 121 entries at an abi = $397, whereas my own stats show that this figure is $493. i'm not a rebuy maniac like some of the higher profile players, so i think it wouldnt be too far fetched to see abi > $700 for some.

    as such my profits from the 100R alone are over-estimated by 121 x (493 - 397) = $11.6k

    for a higher profile player who might have played the 100R 350 times @ $700 abi, their actual profit would be over $100k lower than that estimated by OPR/pokerdb just from the 100R alone. add-in a load of 200Rs, 50Rs, etc and they could easily be out by $150k, having a significant impact on roi.

    so, actually, even though some of the roi numbers you see on OPR are lower than you might have expected, the real roi numbers for many of these players are even lower still.

    most high-ranked/high-volume players are still making money, but in some case perhaps not as much as you might think.
     
  13. sketchy1 sketchy1 is offline Dangerzone

    Posts: 9,597
    Joined: Apr 05

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:40pm) in reply to JAAAAA!!!!

    i don't think you understand the "long run" then.

    a few months ago, i had logged about 1300 tourn on stars and had nearly a 90% roi.

    since sept i have had a few final tables, but my roi is negative since then and has brought my roi down to somewhere around 50%.

    that's a HUGE jump in roi's and it gets down to your "forgive me if i'm not enthused" category, yet a jump like that over a 2 month period with negative results will do that. and if you play as many tournaments as most of the high volume players do (i have logged prob around 2,000 mtt's in a few years time, prob 2/3 of which has come in the past 9 months), you can go on swings of going even up to 20, 25, 30 and even beyond tournaments in a row without a cash.

    imagine how a 150% roi would look after 30 tournaments of an average buyin of say $100 ($30,000 in buyins roughly) after you go without a single cash. now suddenly someone with an astronomical roi is brought back down to earth with something like a 50-60% roi.

    gotta love variance. hopefully (obv) my roi gets back into the sicker range, but wtf can u do but play harder, focus more, study, and try and get better. sometimes ur drawing dead to begin with just like in some games of solitaire.
      

    sketchy1 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  14. oscar 1 1 oscar 1 1 is offline

    Streamwood, IL
    United States

    Posts: 157
    Joined: Jul 07

    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:48pm) in reply to sketchy1

    would anyone please run my roi for me im really curious what it is. i tryed registering for this site that tells rois but had no luck. i really appreciate it. thanks
  15. JAAAAA!!!! JAAAAA!!!! is offline

    Greenwich, CT
    United States

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    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:53pm) in reply to sketchy1

    A- I'm not trying to put you or anyone else down

    B- 50% is not 15%, or 25% or 30%. You're a positive swing away from great, and a negative swing away from being like them. They're a negative swing away from being losing players.

    25% - 35%, when in fact it's even lower now that I've found out that re-buys are under represented, is not nearly what I would thought I was going to see from some of the ranked players.

    What I did not expect was the huge gap between Annette, and some of the other players ranked slightly lower.
    Thread Starter
  16. stevie444 stevie444 is offline

    Posts: 1,531
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    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 8:59pm) in reply to sketchy1

    You are a lil bit off multiplying 100 by 30 but yeah varience is huge, especially on pokerstars. You really need to have thousands and thousands of tournaments to be able to compair peoples ability based solely on ROI. Just look at how much one persons stats change from site to site.
    91 12
  17. Jamessdean Jamessdean is offline

    Moses Lake, WA
    United States

    Posts: 119
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    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 9:09pm) in reply to JAAAAA!!!!

    Don't get too used to this website or others like it. They will not be allowed to give certain information like ROI and profits soon. Check out the latest issue of Cardplayer Magazine. There is an article in there about it. pokerstars will not allow the poker rankings sites to show profitability data unless the players agreed to it. There is a procedure to give permission to post these stats. Players can also completely opt out of having ANY information about therm displayed on these sites. I'm sure other sites will follow PokerStars lead. It was fun while it lasted though.
  18. BudmansCom BudmansCom is offline

    Clive, IA
    United States

    Posts: 1,671
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    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 9:34pm) in reply to oscar 1 1

    Oscar, your profile shows you only play at Bodog. OPR only ranks stars & FullTilt (+ some non-US). So no one can do what you ask other than yourself (by tracking your own results).

    Bud
  19. Kenny Rap Kenny Rap is offline

    Absecon, NJ
    United States

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    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 10:35pm) in reply to stevie444

    for once a good post by zSpaceman
     
  20. Kenny Rap Kenny Rap is offline

    Absecon, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 1,999
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    Oct 10th, 2007 (10/10/2007 10:35pm) in reply to Kenny Rap

    sry for for once comment just took a bad beat
     
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