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good/Bad 3 Bet Shove? FT 50/50

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  1. JSTLRNED JSTLRNED is offline

    Geneva, IL
    United States

    Posts: 11
    Joined: Oct 09

    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 8:56am)

    payerikplz is a 21vpip 27PFR and 50steal. Does he have fold equity, and do I have ICM to fold? Bad Good is this a spot to reshove?

    Full Tilt Poker Game #28273932176: The Fifty-Fifty (217167086), Table 73 - 6000/12000 Ante 1500 - No Limit Hold'em - 03:45:57 ET - 2011/02/17
    Seat 1: payerikplz (571,556)
    Seat 2: JSTLRNED (251,497)
    Seat 3: Stylez01 (150,267)
    Seat 4: xBlackout (261,284)
    Seat 5: BigJesus2 (317,883)
    Seat 6: YuOnlyBeatMeBad (606,576)
    Seat 7: Cwolf913 (339,760)
    Seat 8: loose_cannon_jj (476,990)
    Seat 9: LebanonJon (360,187)
    payerikplz antes 1,500
    JSTLRNED antes 1,500
    Stylez01 antes 1,500
    xBlackout antes 1,500
    BigJesus2 antes 1,500
    YuOnlyBeatMeBad antes 1,500
    Cwolf913 antes 1,500
    loose_cannon_jj antes 1,500
    LebanonJon antes 1,500
    xBlackout posts the small blind of 6,000
    BigJesus2 posts the big blind of 12,000
    The button is in seat #3
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to JSTLRNED [Tc As]
    YuOnlyBeatMeBad folds
    Cwolf913 folds
    loose_cannon_jj folds
    LebanonJon folds
    payerikplz raises to 27,000
    JSTLRNED has 15 seconds left to act
    JSTLRNED raises to 249,997, and is all in
    Stylez01 has 15 seconds left to act
    Stylez01 has requested TIME
    Cwolf913 has been disconnected
    Cwolf913 has reconnected
    Stylez01 folds
    xBlackout folds
    BigJesus2 folds
    payerikplz calls 222,997
    JSTLRNED shows [Tc As]
    payerikplz shows [Qd Qh]
    *** FLOP *** [6d 6s 4c]
    *** TURN *** [6d 6s 4c] [Qc]
    *** RIVER *** [6d 6s 4c Qc] [Kd]
    JSTLRNED shows a pair of Sixes
    payerikplz shows a full house, Queens full of Sixes
    payerikplz wins the pot (531,494) with a full house, Queens full of Sixes
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 531,494 | Rake 0
    Board: [6d 6s 4c Qc Kd]
  2. hussainsajwani hussainsajwani is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 9:55am) in reply to JSTLRNED

    standard? probably better off 3bet folding tho. but i can see myself just jamming too.
     
  3. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

    New York, NY
    United States

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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 2:52pm) in reply to JSTLRNED

     
    Originally Posted by JSTLRNED View Post

    payerikplz is a 21vpip 27PFR and 50steal. Does he have fold equity, and do I have ICM to fold? Bad Good is this a spot to reshove?

    No offense, but do you even know what you're talking about? The person that shoves has the fold equity -- not the caller. ICM has nothing to do with this, unless it's at the final table.

    In terms of the reshove, it's fine. With 21bbs, it's not the best situation to 3bet/fold, although it is a possibility. I don't mind the shove given the villains image. Unlucky you ran into a monster.
     969 
  4. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is online now

    Costa Rica

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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 2:55pm) in reply to tyson219

    someone please tell me what those hud stats means and i will render a verdict

     
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post

    ICM has nothing to do with this, unless it's at the final table.

    In his defense, stack sizes make it look like this is a FT. That was my assumption.
    660 1
  5. tyson219 tyson219 is offline Moderator

    New York, NY
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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 3:11pm) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    In his defense, stack sizes make it look like this is a FT. That was my assumption.

    Fair point.

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    someone please tell me what those hud stats means and i will render a verdict

    VPIP - Voluntarily Putting money In to the Pot
    PFR - Preflop raise
    Steal - Attempt to steal -- raise in late position (I think CO or later)

    I think the VPIP and PFR stats are reserved in his post. Basically, raise 21% and attempt to steal 50%.
     969 
  6. winkie23 winkie23 is offline

    CT
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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 3:18pm) in reply to tyson219

     
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post

    No offense, but do you even know what you're talking about? The person that shoves has the fold equity -- not the caller. ICM has nothing to do with this, unless it's at the final table.

    In terms of the reshove, it's fine. With 21bbs, it's not the best situation to 3bet/fold, although it is a possibility. I don't mind the shove given the villains image. Unlucky you ran into a monster.

    I'm guessing OP meant does he (OP) have fold equity? Answer is definitely yes, you're forcing this dude to call off half his stack. Given how active he's been, this looks like a perfect reshove spot to me and you just got unlucky to hit the top of his range. Next time bink an A and ship. wp op
  7. s.l. halper s.l. halper is offline

    Garwood, NJ
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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 3:50pm) in reply to winkie23

    This hand looks standard and uncontroversial regardless of what the fancy schmancy numbers are telling you.

    Run better.
     
  8. peanut172 peanut172 is offline

    Durham
    United Kingdom

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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 4:09pm) in reply to s.l. halper

    lol at 3 bet folding with 20 bbs but yeah i would shove this even more likely to shove on a final table
    883 
  9. Iplaythabored Iplaythabored is offline ghost writer

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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 4:19pm) in reply to peanut172

    how is his pfr > vpip
     
  10. chaz78 chaz78 is offline

    Mentor, OH
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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 5:59pm) in reply to hussainsajwani

     
    Originally Posted by hussainsajwani View Post

    standard? probably better off 3bet folding tho. but i can see myself just jamming too.

    this is too good to be true
    OP: didn't bother with your HUD #'s but read hh and nh just ul
    Edited By: chaz78 Feb 17th, 2011 at 06:03 PM
     
  11. JSTLRNED JSTLRNED is offline

    Geneva, IL
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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 8:02pm) in reply to tyson219

    Sorry sir but yes it was FT, and yes I am wonderind if payperkl has fold equit. Thanks for your input.
    Thread Starter
  12. cocoa_butter111 cocoa_butter111 is offline

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    Feb 17th, 2011 (2/17/2011 11:11pm) in reply to Iplaythabored

     
    Originally Posted by Iplaythabored View Post

    how is his pfr > vpip


    ^^^ i was like wtf you're VPIP CANT'T be less then ur PFR% he must have meant 17% pfr... otherwise your dealing with an indestructible player who RAISES MORE POTs THEN HE ACTUALLY PLAYS.... definite Multi-accounter issues here.... hahaha....


    But to get to OP... if u have a solid read that the guy is opening light from MP alot then shove is fine.... NEVER 3 bet here... esp w any intention of folding...but 3betting less then 20bbs is spewy...esp if u muck to his 4bet jam... although i can see myself just clicking fold in this spot a decent amount of the time w 3 players to act behind...altho shoving always seems to be more fun....but ya SHOVE/FOLD.... never 3bet...
    Edited By: cocoa_butter111 Feb 17th, 2011 at 11:11 PM
     
  13. CU Bluff 024 CU Bluff 024 is offline

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    Feb 18th, 2011 (2/18/2011 12:33am) in reply to cocoa_butter111

    Nice Run Dave, unlucky to run into QQ. Im 3bet shoving or folding, and you definitely have fold equity. If i am in your spot, im more likely folding and waiting for a better spot to get it in, but im a NIT.....ICM is definitely a HUGE factor since its at the FT of the 5050 with payouts increasing exponentially each time someone gets felted (10k to first and like 500 to 9th). But without table flow knowledge and previous hands the villain has played, its tough to make an informed decision here.
  14. m_hawk_1 m_hawk_1 is offline

    Australia

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    Feb 18th, 2011 (2/18/2011 3:09am) in reply to CU Bluff 024

    HUD numbers here are probably a terrible indication. There's a good chance most of the hands you have on this guy came from shorthanded play on the FT bubble (with him as a cl) or some other irrelevant situation. Shove here can't be terrible mathematically, but when the chipleader only has 50bb, there are going to be heaps better ways to spend 21bb.
    471 
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