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Good Players are Very Tight, Too Tight or Just Right?

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  1. Qcity Qcity is offline

    Thailand

    Posts: 427
    Joined: May 05

    Sep 21st, 2006 (9/21/2006 10:40pm)

    Since I've started my fast from poker today, I've taken to railing a lot of the top players the WCOOP Rebuy event. This is a very deep stack tourney, and most of the good players I'm watching have a big M right now. However I've noticed all the top players, with the exception of Johnster, are playing very tight solid and getting involved and winning very few pots.

    I'm watching all the following players, all of whom are playing tight:

    Bodogari (probably the loosest of the bunch except Johnster, except still tight given his big stack and his table seems very weak tight, he is playing very good though, no one wants to mess with him. I think its a good style and image for him because he always knows where hes at in the hand, if he gets checkraised for example he's probably up against a monster. Barring some unlucky circumstances he should place very highly)
    Purr of Aces
    Xaar
    Rabscuttle
    Sooners (never plays a hand)
    Cashrus
    Riverloser
    Emptytank88 (scott fischman, played one hand in last 40)
    Shumoney (never plays a hand)
    Theshrike
    Ferrariboy (never play a hand)

    All of these are good players, most with big ROIs. LAG is supposed to be the in poker style right now yet I see very few of the better players using it. There is only a handful of guys like Johnster, Lilholdem954, Gbmantis and Belowabove who seem to use it on a regular basis. Other players like Actionjeff use it ocassionally when they are changing gears or in shorthanded situations, however he and others like him are mostly tight. I just don't think a lot of poker players have a combination of the balls or the skill to pull it off on a regular basis.

    I would have expected more players using the Negreneau style of seeing more flops giving the deep stacks relative to the blinds, even this late in the tourney.

    90% of the top players seem to be Dan Harrington type style.

    So my questions are the following:

    Is LAG overrated in tournaments?
    Is LAG more applicable to cash games than tournaments?
    Will TAG always be the most common and preferred style of the pros and semi-pros?

    I really respect the game of players like Gbmantis, Belowabove and Lilholdem954, it takes so much skill and discpline to pull that style off. Its so easy playing LAG to go into donk or tilt mode and give away a big stack, there is a really fine line to run between great play and donkness and watching players that can pull it off is really like watching a master painter paint a master piece. I'd rather watch a table of one Daniel Negreneau or one Gigabet than a table full of 9 Dan Harringtons.

    Both styles and types of players can be extremely successful, however I'd rather be the master artist instead of the master craftsman. The master artist doesn't produce much and goes through a lot of trial and error, takes a lot of risks, scrapping most of what he produces, but when he does complete a masterpiece it is priceless. The master craftsman on the other hand is very productive constantly producing the same work of great quality but with none of the creativity or genious that the master artist employs.
     
  2. jemenz jemenz is offline

    Elk Grove, CA
    United States

    Posts: 602
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    Sep 21st, 2006 (9/21/2006 10:44pm) in reply to Qcity

    It's cooler to be a maniac, but believe your eyes, your oberservations are more trust worthy then anything anyone will ever tell you.
  3. ill flu ill flu is offline

    Kailua, HI
    United States

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    Sep 21st, 2006 (9/21/2006 10:50pm) in reply to Qcity

    <span>''</span><span>I'd rather watch a table of one Daniel Negreneau or one Gigabet than a table full of 9 Dan Harringtons.''

    </span> Yea but as a player, you shouldn't give half of a shit about how entertaining you are to watch.
  4. Roothlus Roothlus is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 2,205
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    Sep 21st, 2006 (9/21/2006 11:06pm) in reply to ill flu

    the good tight players are what I like to call reactive(they reshove, squeeze, etc)
    574 
  5. OMG_LOL_WTF OMG_LOL_WTF is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

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    Sep 21st, 2006 (9/21/2006 11:28pm) in reply to Roothlus

    Are you suggesting we rank poker players in the same manner we rank porridge?
  6. Ari Ari is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 3,147
    Joined: Sep 05

    Sep 22nd, 2006 (9/22/2006 1:00am) in reply to Qcity

    I liked what Gavin Smith said in the circuit the other day. I try to raise 10% more than I can get away with. Of course, that threshhold is very different in different situations, but seems like a reasonable goal w/ a big stack.

    For me, I find that I have play tighter on stars, because people love to push all in when in doubt. Whereas, for example on a site like pokerroom, they're more likely to call and see a flop and then decide that their 99 is not good on an aj4 flop. (So I can get away raising with 24, bec. they'll fold later in the hand, whereas on Stars, they'll just push pre.
    155 21
  7. Qcity Qcity is offline

    Thailand

    Posts: 427
    Joined: May 05

    Sep 22nd, 2006 (9/22/2006 2:06am) in reply to OMG_LOL_WTF

    No porridge is an altogether different subject. I was just curious why so few players were playing LAG when it seemed like a prime time to do so (i.e. tight/weak tables, big stacks to play postflop situations etc.). I was also suggesting that perhaps LAG is not as popular and widespread as many people seem to think.
     
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  8. Qcity Qcity is offline

    Thailand

    Posts: 427
    Joined: May 05

    Sep 22nd, 2006 (9/22/2006 2:13am) in reply to Ari

    Ari I think you were playing optimally in this situation by playing medium aggressive. There were a lot of dynamics there as I was watching that suggested to play that way. When I first started watching you were in second place and on the bubble and I thought you were playing overly tight. But then I watched further and you were playing it perfect, given the condition at your table (OOP against one LAG and one donk, rest of table tight/weak, no one messing with you or playing back at you). If you stepped up the aggression just one notch more you were of found yourself in some marginal situations against the two loose players who had position on you.

    You are an awesome player and deserve that #1 rating. Congrats and keep it up.
     
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  9. Qcity Qcity is offline

    Thailand

    Posts: 427
    Joined: May 05

    Sep 22nd, 2006 (9/22/2006 2:15am) in reply to Roothlus

    Roothlus, I didn't see your name when I railing with 200 players left. Now you are still in with 16 left! GL man and take down a big score.
     
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  10. Qcity Qcity is offline

    Thailand

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    Joined: May 05

    Sep 22nd, 2006 (9/22/2006 2:26am) in reply to jemenz

    I have had my best successes in both cash games and tournaments playing LAG. I won 40BB/100 hands for a long 2 month stretch playing cash games LAG, 2-3 tables max, then I switched up to tight to try out 6 tabling and lost quite a bit. I have also done poorly in tournaments when I mutitable 4-6 tables TAG, but have frequently dominated 2 tables playing LAG. The other week for instance on the stars second chance I was chip leader with 200K chips with 30 players left playing loose and second place chipleader had only 100K (average was 50K). Then I started to shut down playing tight because I wanted to make the final table (I was running bad and wanted to make sure I got a 5-10K score to make up for previous 2 weeks losses) and I finished 14th!

    I suppose it depends on the person but I think there are more players skilled enough to play a very effective LAG style who cling to TAG for a variety of reasons (maybe they have backers and don't want to look foolish, maybe they never took the time to practice to play that way, maybe it goes some false theories they hold, etc.)
     
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  11. I Fold I Fold is offline

    Newport Beach, CA
    United States

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    Joined: Jun 05

    Sep 22nd, 2006 (9/22/2006 3:57am) in reply to Qcity

    MY ANSWER LAG ON OR BEFORE THE BUTTON, TAG IN MIDDLE OR EARLY POSITION....
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