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A good ranking system really doesn’t have to be all that complicated.
Simply track all results for some predetermined number of recurring tournaments each week and rank players by net profit.
If a player plays every tournament and loses money overall, the fact that he final tabled “5 times” won’t fool anyone. On the other hand, if he only plays 10 tournaments and final tables 3 times, his net profit will probably compare pretty well.
The results could be compiled indefinitely and parsed into yearly, monthly or even weekly rankings. -
Mr. Blonde
Supreme Moderator
Posts: 26,918
Joined: Sep 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 7:28pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
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Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 7:32pm) in reply to Mr. Blonde
um, how often will he win the Sunday tournaments?
The ranking will be cumulative and if a player wins $100,000, 1 time he deserves as much credit for it as a player who wins $10,000, 10 times.
And a $10 rebuy shouldn't be counted in a ranking system, anyway. -
Posts: 12,401
Joined: Dec 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 7:36pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
yes rebuys 5 and 10 should both count
more chips= better players win more often
and if u win the sunday tourney maybe you deserve to be ranked high -
Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 7:41pm) in reply to Cmoney3
If you're going to count $5 and $10 tournaments, what aren't you going to count?
Pick the top 100 recurring weekly tournaments, record all results and rank net profit.
We can hold a vote of the currently ranked players to pick the top 100.
There, problem solved, no charge. -
Posts: 146
Joined: Apr 06Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 8:00pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
100 touraments a week, as in 15 tournaments every day?
Would that show who was the best, or who plays the most poker (or who needed to be introduced to sunlight)?
I think a smaller amount, that every ranked player played, would be far more accurate than any system where some players played more than others. -
Posts: 716
Joined: Aug 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 8:00pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
The 10re on stars is one of the top 100 recurring tourneys.......that being said, I think people are blowing the rankings out of proportion. Does it really matter if you are or aren't ranked? I know I'm prob going to fall out of the rankings soon cause I'm busy travelling and not playing (greetings from Holland by the way). If you are making money who cares if you are #1 on the P5s list or a complete unknown? Take my year....cash in the PCA for $32k and have a sick run for about $75K in a week to start Feb for about $110k profit in a month and a half, all while not ranked....since then I'm up like $1500 in 6 weeks and I'm ranked on the site. What would you rather have? Don't get me wrong, I am flattered and honoured by being ranked but in the end it is not as important as people are making it out to be.
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Posts: 12,401
Joined: Dec 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 8:01pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
im not talkin about all random 5 and 10 tournys
these are tournies w 25k, 35k and 55k guaranteed
large tournies -
Posts: 505
Joined: Sep 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 8:05pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
This doesn't sort the problems it takes getting all the necessary info from every site, like they mentioned about partypoker on the podcast.
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Posts: 4,409
Joined: Sep 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 8:07pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
You don't agree with the current ranking system, yet you want the people currently ranked (who by your own testament are somewhat incorrectly ranked) to be able to choose the tourneys? I mean no disrespect because I have the utmost respect for your game and you as a person as well, but I completely disagree. I believe every member of this site has a right to have a say in this. I think that all tournaments should be counted, but strongly agree with the whole net profit argument. Im sure there are plenty of people that have more time than others that could simply play every tournament out there and make a sick amount of FTs, but still be hardly be winning money. Just my 2 cents... -Sok
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Posts: 4,003
Joined: May 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 8:09pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
DL: we see eye to eye on MOST subjects...but this is an oversimplification on your part.
The NCAA rankings are done without using an exact science, what makes you think online poker is easier?
Saying $5 or $10 rebuys dont count is foolish, in addition i completely disagree with the idea that 1 100K cash in a Sunday is worth same as 10 diff 10k cashes...we have all seen some pitiful donks get awfully lucky on 1 day. In addition, what about someone who concentrates on winning a lot of sats so they can use $100-200k of the sites $ to enter all the free live tourneys they want (or sell for for cash if they choose)
I know there are people on the list who havent done shit all year IMO, and others not on it that should be, but i feel it all works out or will in the end. Although i do feel that the 'liked' players seem to move up faster then those that may 'rub people the wrong way' -
dhubermex
Senior Writer
Posts: 8,471
Joined: Jul 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 8:15pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
This week's Podcast contained an in-depth discussion about the PocketFives.com online Tournament Player Rankings. My co-host on the show, Adam Small (Content Manager & Co-Owner of PocketFives.com) cleared up a lot of questions and provided insight into what we all can expect from the Rankings in the future. For those who have yet to hear the show, you can download it from the Podcast landing page at the following link:
http://www.pocketfives.com/E9E77351-...4EAE1B5B2.aspx -
Posts: 1,218
Joined: Feb 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 8:47pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
I would also like to point out that Net Profit might be misleading. It is the most important number obviously, but if a guys plays all 100 tourneys per week to net $5,000 he is not better than the player that played 50 and netted $4,500.
I think a $10 rebuy tourney is a joke. The field is so weak and top players basically buy a HUGE advantage over the weak field. I actually feel that ALL rebuys should be excluded, because a well-bankrolled player has a HUGE advantage over SOME of the other players. I personally love rebuys because there is so much dead money - literally DEAD MONEY. Guys who buy in for the minimum and quit when they bust while I can play without fear trying to double up.
It's tough..... -
Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:04pm) in reply to PlayPerfect
It's based on net profit.
If a person can win more net money by playing 15 tournaments a day than I can by playing 3 or 4, then so be it.
But guess what? They can't. -
Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:10pm) in reply to isuck123
Poker is about winning money.
I don't care how you won the $100 grand, if you won it net, you won it net. A donk that gets lucky a time or two will be obvious enough in my system.
...and we won't have to take others people's word about who is and who isn't a net loser or who is or who isn't one of their "liked" players. -
Posts: 264
Joined: Dec 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:11pm) in reply to AawwNutz
the rankings would change completely each week, it'd suck
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Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:17pm) in reply to Sokpuppet7
Where did I say I think anyone is incorrectly ranked? I didn't.
If the members in general really care about this I suppose we might give them some form of weighted vote. My idea for having ranked players vote is strictly because I think ranked players will have a more realisitc view of which tourneys should and should not be ranked.
If we open it up entirely, I'm afraid we'll end up with a list dominated by $1 and $2 tourneys. ;] -
Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:24pm) in reply to AawwNutz
We could solve this problem pretty easily by just showing the number of tourneys played. If someone makes $5000 and the stats show he played 100 tourneys, most here can draw their own conclusions about how he compares to someone who won $4500 and only played 10 tourneys.
We could also set a minimum number of tournaments needed to be ranked to solve the problem of an account that shows a big win or two and rarely, if ever, plays again. -
Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:25pm) in reply to AsaDiamonds
LOL, the weekly ranking would change each week, but the monthly, yearly and even total to date rankings would, in time, become appropriately stable.
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Posts: 1,761
Joined: Mar 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:26pm) in reply to AsaDiamonds
Actually over the course of time under a system as DL describes it wouldnt change as much as you might think, in the beginning yes, but after a 6 month period or so the cream would rise to the top.
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Posts: 1,091
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:44pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
I think the only real problem is that no one's been able to come up with a good objective ranking system for online poker. Fans of that kind of leaderboard are left with nowhere to go for their fix, except maybe extremetilt, so they come here to be disappointed by a leaderboard that is too subjective to sooth their needs. Hopefully someday soon one of the complainers will create or inspire a numbers-only leaderboard that covers enough sites to feel complete, and everyone (or, well, many more people) can be happy.
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Posts: 873
Joined: Jun 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:46pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
Month to Month, its who makes the most money.........
If Johnnybax has three dry months of online mtt play, hes not the number 1 player.....
What have u done for me lately...
Not saying he has, just saying in general.
Those who make the most money, should be called the best..period. -
Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:49pm) in reply to isuck123
On-line poker doesn't suffer from the same problem live poker does.
There is no on-line equivalent to the WSOP main event in the recurring weekly tournaments.
You just wouldn't have the "Hahem" effect in on-line tourneys. -
Posts: 4,409
Joined: Sep 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:49pm) in reply to DoubleLucky
I thought I had seen somewhere where you mentioned a couple players that should be in and a couple that should be out of the rankings but I could be mistaken, so I apologize if you didn't... But as you know, there are a TON of good players that are playing all the big tournaments on a daily basis that aren't ranked here... I understand your concern about the 1 and 2 dollar tourneys, but if you just allow all tourneys to be counted and judge by net profit, the people playing these 1 and 2 dollar tourneys will never reach the list.
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Posts: 656
Joined: Jan 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:51pm) in reply to skippy32
What have I done lately? LOL.
I've won about $70 grand net in the last 8 days.
What have you done, ever? -
Posts: 4,409
Joined: Sep 05Apr 6th, 2006 (4/6/2006 9:53pm) in reply to boozhwaa
Hey, I never realized you were from Arlington... Ok, you moved up some more notches in my book
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