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Got berated for the shove....thoughts?

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  1. Ntaust10 Ntaust10 is offline

    Newington, CT
    United States

    Posts: 125
    Joined: Nov 10

    Apr 15th, 2011 (4/15/2011 9:17am)

    Okay so villain shoved utg last orbit, and flatter is -roi when i OPR'ed him. Not to concerned with villain's (who is the short stack) range. The flatter, with stack sizes should be iso-shoving his whole range here..correct? Regardless, because he is a losing player, i don't think he is capable of flatting jj-aa, is this absurd? And if i shove, which would basically be for his tourney life, only aq and jj+ can call, correct? Or maybe he is getting a better price and almost has to call. Idk, maybe the shove was terrabad. Any thoughts are appreciated.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #29917114612: $18,000 Guarantee (232319481), Table 8 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 04:00:48 ET - 2011/04/15
    Seat 1: buullet (34,617)
    Seat 2: Yadamon Angel (12,678)
    Seat 3: Pedro Lafleur (2,926)
    Seat 4: Ntaust10 (17,495)
    Seat 5: bruszli46 (21,136)
    Seat 6: LymanZyrga (4,945)
    Seat 7: Pinden_Joe (18,235)
    Seat 8: JohnDough87 (16,293)
    Seat 9: St3v3_Harv3y (16,329)
    buullet antes 50
    Yadamon Angel antes 50
    Pedro Lafleur antes 50
    Ntaust10 antes 50
    bruszli46 antes 50
    LymanZyrga antes 50
    Pinden_Joe antes 50
    JohnDough87 antes 50
    St3v3_Harv3y antes 50
    Ntaust10 posts the small blind of 200
    bruszli46 posts the big blind of 400
    The button is in seat #3
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Ntaust10 [7h 7s]
    LymanZyrga has 15 seconds left to act
    LymanZyrga raises to 4,895, and is all in
    Pinden_Joe has 15 seconds left to act
    Pinden_Joe calls 4,895
    JohnDough87 folds
    St3v3_Harv3y folds
    buullet has 15 seconds left to act
    buullet folds
    Yadamon Angel folds
    Pedro Lafleur folds
    Ntaust10 has 15 seconds left to act
    Ntaust10 has requested TIME
    Ntaust10 raises to 17,445, and is all in
    bruszli46 folds
    Pinden_Joe has 15 seconds left to act
    Pinden_Joe folds
  2. UKKage UKKage is offline

    Southsea
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 94
    Joined: Jul 07

    Apr 15th, 2011 (4/15/2011 2:06pm) in reply to Ntaust10

    I think it's pretty bad.

    You looked up the player that flatted the shove and saw that he had a -ROI and yet say later that 'only JJ+ and AQ+ can call' your re-shove. I would expect the opposite and not assume him to be capable of folding 88-TT - which is certainly in his range. Compound that with the fact that JJ+ is most certainly plausible and you have ~44bbs it's definitely a fold.
    376 
  3. mdschluter mdschluter is offline

    United States

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    Apr 15th, 2011 (4/15/2011 3:25pm) in reply to UKKage

    fold...alot of bad players will just cal in that spot with AA or KK. either way, its a fold. u need IMO 1010+ to go there
  4. LiquidCoke7 LiquidCoke7 is offline

    Hilton Head Island, SC
    United States

    Posts: 172
    Joined: Sep 07

    Apr 15th, 2011 (4/15/2011 4:45pm) in reply to mdschluter

    Why shove in this spot? You already know the flatter is a losing player so obv he would call this with a lot less that JJ+. He would prob call you with AJ, and any pp as well. He doesnt know any better and its 3x the original raise really. Seems like a really bad spot to reshove here with 77. Raise, call and you gotta HOPE for a race at best. Pick a better spot.

    LIQUID
    Edited By: LiquidCoke7 Apr 15th, 2011 at 04:46 PM
  5. NarcoCop NarcoCop is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

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    Joined: Apr 09

    Apr 15th, 2011 (4/15/2011 7:46pm) in reply to Trevydawg300

    Bad shove. You have over 40 bigs , no need to shove here and pray. If flatter calls you are so dominated. Better spots to pick up chips. Also your probably a slight favorite at best vs utg. fold and find better spots.
     
  6. mdshack14 mdshack14 is offline

    Auburn Hills, MI
    United States

    Posts: 5,646
    Joined: May 07

    Apr 15th, 2011 (4/15/2011 9:00pm) in reply to mdschluter

     
    Originally Posted by mdschluter View Post

    fold...alot of bad players will just cal in that spot with AA or KK. either way, its a fold. u need IMO 1010+ to go there

    I agree with the fold part of your argument but not the bolded part. I believe that flatting there with AA or KK is a much better play then shoving. By flatting you can induce shoves by tens, jacks, queens or AK. Also, by seeing the OP....shoves from 77. I definitely don't understand shoving on a losing player with 77 in that spot.
     
  7. downbylaw11 downbylaw11 is offline

    Surrey
    Canada

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    Joined: Jun 07

    Apr 17th, 2011 (4/17/2011 12:50am) in reply to mdshack14

    you should be more concerned about utg's shoving range imo. If the guy plays anything close to solid, an utg shove with 12bbs does fairly well against 77 imo and when utg+1 flats, you can almost be certain that 77 is smashed. sure, you might have caught him flatting some hands he would fold to your shove, but is it really worth it? this is a meh iso shove that i see way too many people do these days. dead money is cool and all, i just dont think 77 plays well enough here
  8. tb4rizzl tb4rizzl is offline

    United States

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    Apr 17th, 2011 (4/17/2011 8:28pm) in reply to downbylaw11

     
    Originally Posted by downbylaw11 View Post

    you should be more concerned about utg's shoving range imo. If the guy plays anything close to solid, an utg shove with 12bbs does fairly well against 77 imo and when utg+1 flats, you can almost be certain that 77 is smashed. sure, you might have caught him flatting some hands he would fold to your shove, but is it really worth it? this is a meh iso shove that i see way too many people do these days. dead money is cool and all, i just dont think 77 plays well enough here

    even if your read on the flatter is that he is terrible and will c/f its still a fold, 50bbs you want to be opening wide and 3b wide in position to pick up chips not making light isolations
  9. brennanj15 brennanj15 is offline

    Sterling Heights, MI
    United States

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    Apr 18th, 2011 (4/18/2011 3:55am) in reply to Ahurazor

    I think the fact that he's a loosing player means that he's calling a lot more often and showing up light with high broadway cards and pairs 88+. I'd honestly be a lot more prone to shoving against a tight winning player then a loose loosing player. I think he's calling way to much of his range to make that profitable.
  10. PocketSims PocketSims is offline

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    Apr 24th, 2011 (4/24/2011 8:51pm) in reply to shallowcal

    i believe that the player who flatted wld iso with anything 88+ aq+ so u can pick up a free 4k this way obv winning the all in
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