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GREAT LAYDOWN (K'S PREFLOP) W.S.O.P.

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  1. Mark_Angle Mark_Angle is offline

    Colorado Springs, CO
    United States

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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:08pm)

    Mon Jul 31 15:02:00 PDT 2006
    Rene Angelil Makes A World Class Laydown
    Rene Angelil raises preflop in early position. Another player in late position makes a big re-raise and Angelil instantly folds K-K face-up. The table is stunned and even more suprised to see his opponent turn over A-A. After making an almost impossible laydown, Angelil is down to $9,200.
  2. ronjon13 ronjon13 is offline

    Canada

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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:09pm) in reply to Mark_Angle

    wow must have had a sick tell on the guy, btw K was coming on flop obv
  3. shipitthisway shipitthisway is offline

    Wheeling, WV
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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:10pm) in reply to Mark_Angle

    I had kings early on day one and would've laid them down in a heartbeat to a third raise pre-flop. You are seeing a lot of set over set eliminations here in the early levels because the play is so tight for the majority because of the deep starting stacks
     
  4. betbrett betbrett is offline

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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:12pm) in reply to shipitthisway

    I never understand the value of showing the AA. I would have mucked and left him wondering at least a little bit if his read was right. No need confirming someone's read on you.
  5. steve steve is offline

    Memphis, TN
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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:12pm) in reply to Mark_Angle

    I guess "That's the Way It Is."
  6. FSKGB FSKGB is offline

    Webster, NY
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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:13pm) in reply to shipitthisway

    Shhhh, don't talk like that around here. In general, most P5'ers have kings, they don't care what you have.
  7. supermoves supermoves is offline invented poker

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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:25pm) in reply to Mark_Angle

    I think this is a terrible laydown 99% of the time. If you are folding KK preflop in a tourney, you are not playing winning poker IMO. There are about 1% of times when you should laydown KK and most of them are satilite situations. I just cannot see laying down KK preflop being a winning play in the long run.
    1
  8. NetFan44 NetFan44 is offline

    New York City, NY
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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:27pm) in reply to Mark_Angle

    i'm pretty sure he made that laydown just to avoid seeing celine for a couple more hours
  9. Stupor_Mundi Stupor_Mundi is offline

    Silver Spring, MD
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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 6:33pm) in reply to supermoves

    I don't know... generally, bad players will try to play aces a certain way in comparison to other hands, and usually when they bump up your raise (or someone elses) the minimum amount preflop, you can be sure you're dealing with a monster hand (AA or KK). However, even in these cases, I usually look to call with my pot odds and see a flop in case I hit my set or two pair and can stack the other player. I'm not sure what this guy did to make Angelil laydown kings preflop, but he's married to Celine Dion, so running second is not necessarily a new thing for him.

    I have seen bad players minraise an opening raise without a monster hand in a number of cases, so the rule is not necessarily hard and fast. It is at least a good guideline when you're looking for the nut hands in fields of this quality.
  10. dangeroos dangeroos is offline

    San Diego, CA
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    Jul 31st, 2006 (7/31/2006 7:56pm) in reply to supermoves

    Yeah, I agree that he was right in this situation, but laying down KK is -EV in the long run. Dan Harrington talks about this in his book, people who lay down pocket kings pre-flop because they "just know" the other guy has aces. He says that he just nods his head and thinks to himself - "Idiot!"
  11. shakira shakira is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 5:36am) in reply to dangeroos

    Your confused with his comments on busting with set over set.
    Read HOH again cause your quoting is wrong.
  12. Arobinson11 Arobinson11 is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 6:18am) in reply to NetFan44

    How can you say its a bad laydown 99 percent of the time???? He obv. had a huge tell on his opponent since he instafolded to a single reraise... Folding KK preflop when your opponent has AA is the right play.... Give the guy some credit for a good play
     1
  13. Ari Ari is offline

    Toronto
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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 1:49pm) in reply to Mark_Angle

    siiiiiiiiiiiick laydown. and there's no questions. I was playing with Mr. Angelil @ the Bellagio 1K tourney a couple of months ago. On the 2nd hand of the tourney (5k starting chips, 25-50 blinds). I make it 150 to go, and he calls from the BB. The flop comes 10,4,3, and he check raises my 300 bet to 800. I call. The turn comes a 5, and he leads out for 1K, and then calls my all in with j10. He was right, I don't think he plays to survive.

    edit: I had 66, and had stolen the blinds first hand, but i forgot, so i got up and left after I lost my "all in", only to be called back to play for my 75 chips, i came back made it up to 17.5K max, but managed to finish in the teens when only the ft was paying, so just delayed the departure.
    155 21
  14. TomHimself TomHimself is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 1:53pm) in reply to Ari

    yea im surprised mr angelil folded this to a single raise. from what ive read about him he has called CR's with TT on J high flops.
    anyway great laydown
  15. oconnor2008 oconnor2008 is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 1:56pm) in reply to TomHimself

    ari what did you have?
  16. bags69_2000 bags69_2000 is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 2:23pm) in reply to Mark_Angle

    im going broke (unless i hit my 2 outer)......AAvsKK or set over set= gg me
  17. dippydough dippydough is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 2:30pm) in reply to bags69_2000

    i dont see how this is that tough of a laydown in the first level. now saying that, as the blinds get bigger and later in the tournament, i will certainly be going broke with KK to a single raise.
     
  18. Ari Ari is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 2:31pm) in reply to dippydough

    anytime u fold 2nd nuts, and dude has the nuts, that is a sick laydown imo
    155 21
  19. Artiecat Artiecat is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 2:32pm) in reply to bags69_2000

    This isn't on exactly on the same level but I layed down my QQ face up without hesitation to a big reraise preflop at the $2500 bellagio in April. He showed me his AA and I couldn't have felt any better. I agree with the earlier poster. Why make your opponent feel good about laying down a big hand?
     
  20. baldnpatient baldnpatient is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 2:46pm) in reply to Artiecat

    Give the guy credit for a great read. I know I'm not savvy enough to make that laydown. Big field tourney, I'm not laying down a set for fear of a bigger set, nor am I laying down Kings. Isn't set over set like 100 to 1 and the chances for K-K running up against A-A like 23 to 1?
  21. bertminatti bertminatti is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 2:50pm) in reply to dangeroos

    Yeah Harrington says that if you hold KK there's only a 1 in 34 chance that one of your opponents holds AA at a full table. Not sure I could ever lay down KK preflop but props to Rene.
  22. mth0825 mth0825 is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 2:53pm) in reply to Mark_Angle

    Single Tournament No Limit $30 - 2006-07-29 14:04:36 (ET)
    Table: 8362020 (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - DIPTHRONG2 ($3000 in chips)
    Seat 3 - KOOLKID2 ($445 in chips)
    Seat 4 - EBDINAUSTIN ($2620 in chips)
    Seat 5 - ROCNRON ($1755 in chips)
    Seat 7 - AHAWKINS1431 ($1255 in chips)
    Seat 8 - ELVANVITAR ($1390 in chips)
    Seat 9 - VINCHINZO ($3035 in chips)
    AHAWKINS1431 - Posts small blind $15
    ELVANVITAR - Posts big blind $30
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to DIPTHRONG2 [Kc Kh]
    VINCHINZO - Folds
    DIPTHRONG2 - Raises $150 to $150
    KOOLKID2 - Folds
    EBDINAUSTIN - Folds
    ROCNRON - Raises $300 to $300
    AHAWKINS1431 - Calls $285
    ELVANVITAR - Folds
    DIPTHRONG2 - Folds
    *** FLOP *** [6c 2s Js]
    AHAWKINS1431 - Checks
    ROCNRON - Bets $360
    AHAWKINS1431 - Calls $360
    *** TURN *** [6c 2s Js] [5s]
    AHAWKINS1431 - Checks
    ROCNRON - Bets $720
    AHAWKINS1431 - All-In $595
    ROCNRON - returned ($125) : not called
    *** RIVER *** [6c 2s Js 5s] [9s]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    ROCNRON - Shows [Ah Ad] (One pair, aces)
    AHAWKINS1431 - Shows [Ks Qs] (Flush, king high)
    AHAWKINS1431 Collects $2690 from main pot

    Not sure why, not sure how... but he folded KK.
  23. Paypachase Paypachase is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 3:09pm) in reply to Ari

    I was playin in south lake tahoe a few months back and had a dealer that referred to the 2nd nuts as "the sack." My friends and I thought it was clever so we started using it.
  24. ordinary_guy ordinary_guy is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 3:38pm) in reply to mth0825

    only reason i would say its a bad laydown is because the "insta" part no way insta lay down
  25. Gowon Gowon is offline

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    Aug 1st, 2006 (8/1/2006 6:06pm) in reply to ordinary_guy

    There's just no part about making a perfect laydown in the right spot that can constitute a "wrong laydown"

    How can you even think of it?
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