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gross spot with QQ preflop on 2nd hand of 19.5k on ftp

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  1. The Lab Rat The Lab Rat is offline

    Costa Rica

    Posts: 2,070
    Joined: Apr 08

    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 11:12am)

    no reads. like wtf do i do here? I dont really like flatting as an option but i guess its possible. fold ship flat? Side note i assume bukitpro it set mining here like always and not suspicious of his overcall

    Full Tilt Poker Game #15723848200: $19,500 Guarantee (115137877), Table 25 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:03:59 ET - 2009/11/01
    Seat 1: kuachabua (3,000)
    Seat 2: Blueplay (2,990)
    Seat 3: The Lab Rat (2,970)
    Seat 4: bukithepro (2,930)
    Seat 5: Str8Forward (3,000)
    Seat 6: rdcrsn (2,980)
    Seat 7: KingKongBH (3,000)
    Seat 8: jantheJ6 (3,120)
    Seat 9: Scheffjf (3,010)
    rdcrsn posts the small blind of 10
    KingKongBH posts the big blind of 20
    The button is in seat #4
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to The Lab Rat [Qc Qd]
    jantheJ6 folds
    Scheffjf folds
    kuachabua has 15 seconds left to act
    kuachabua has reconnected
    kuachabua raises to 40
    Blueplay folds
    The Lab Rat raises to 144
    bukithepro calls 144
    rdcrsn folds
    KingKongBH folds
    kuachabua raises to 606
    The Lab Rat has 15 seconds left to act
    The Lab Rat has requested TIME
    309 
  2. The Lab Rat The Lab Rat is offline

    Costa Rica

    Posts: 2,070
    Joined: Apr 08

    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 12:01pm) in reply to The Lab Rat

    bumper
    309 
    Thread Starter
  3. m_hawk_1 m_hawk_1 is offline

    Australia

    Posts: 752
    Joined: Mar 07

    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 12:07pm) in reply to The Lab Rat

    As weak as it feels, I think folding here is fine.
    471 
  4. odstore odstore is offline

    Cleveland, OH
    United States

    Posts: 727
    Joined: Jan 08

    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 12:10pm) in reply to The Lab Rat

    I feel like JJ has gotta be in his range which would make it a jam. I dunno though.
  5. doubledave22 doubledave22 is offline

    NJ
    United States

    Posts: 4,719
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    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 12:12pm) in reply to odstore

    i wouldnt worry about buki but this is a relatively easy fold getting in 150bb w/ qq on the 2nd hand if a tournament cant rly be good

    basically, without a read you cant expect ur getting it in any better than KK+ AK which makes it a fold. I dont think JJ r/c any shoves here and it doesnt matter really if he has QQ so ya fold cause u get it in bad and i doubt he r/c worse or is rly FOS ever here
     1
  6. s.l. halper s.l. halper is offline

    Garwood, NJ
    United States

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    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 12:33pm) in reply to odstore

    It seems to me once we see this bet we start convincing ourselves at this point (without reads) of such silly things like: ooh JJ must be in his range! he bet big it must be AK!

    The simple answer: it is the 2nd hand, he min-bet from early position then 4-bet big over 2 people. Unless you have reads this has to be a fold. He has the nukes far too many times in this spot for you to successfully shove and you can't flat this 4-bet and play poker against this range with only a double stack, if ever.
     
  7. kingp1n kingp1n is offline

    Austin, TX
    United States

    Posts: 1,358
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    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 12:49pm) in reply to s.l. halper

    there is still definitely some merit to 3betting for value while still being able to fold given certain circumstances, so its not always "ZOMG turn QQ INTO BLUFFZ?" etc

    fold here seems fine
     
  8. supra1988t supra1988t is offline

    Cary, IL
    United States

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    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 2:24pm) in reply to kingp1n

    Where is the villain from?
    649 
  9. kniqUe kniqUe is offline

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    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 4:49pm) in reply to supra1988t

    pretty much what dave said..

    fold > sigh > bust him later
  10. The Lab Rat The Lab Rat is offline

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    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 9:40pm) in reply to The Lab Rat

    i agree with most you. Just the fact that he min raised pre and then did a weird big 4 bet makes me think he has kk or aa a lot here. Dont really think he ever has JJ here and I guess there is a chance he has other random hands. I was just too stubborn to fold here and ended up shoving into kings. I really agree with what dave said here and just sigh and fold
    309 
    Thread Starter
  11. sretih sretih is offline

    Spring Lake Park, MN
    United States

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    Nov 1st, 2009 (11/1/2009 11:07pm) in reply to The Lab Rat

    All in. That's what I do.
  12. jimmydewrag1 jimmydewrag1 is offline

    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    United States

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    Nov 2nd, 2009 (11/2/2009 3:33am) in reply to sretih

    Is flatting so bad here? 2expensive to flat? flat and fold flop after catching nada means 2 live again and play on yes?
  13. Watcher Watcher is offline

    Biloxi, MS
    United States

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    Nov 2nd, 2009 (11/2/2009 5:54am) in reply to jimmydewrag1

    to go busto on a 2-4-9 flop? not worth the temptation imo.
  14. BobbyPossum BobbyPossum is offline

    Madison, WI
    United States

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    Nov 2nd, 2009 (11/2/2009 6:14am) in reply to Watcher

    Granted it's early in the tourney but a shove is fine, only two hands that are beating you and his range here def includes 77-JJ. I shove and feel fine about it.
     
  15. negativeROI negativeROI is offline

    Columbus, OH
    United States

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    Nov 2nd, 2009 (11/2/2009 10:17am) in reply to The Lab Rat

    LOL @ these range assignments. This spot isn't sick, and it's a pretty clear fold.

    This is just another case of improperly assigning ranges to try to justify a call.
     1
  16. darkcheck_ darkcheck_ is offline

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    Nov 2nd, 2009 (11/2/2009 10:21am) in reply to negativeROI

     
    Originally Posted by negativeROI View Post

    LOL @ these range assignments. This spot isn't sick, and it's a pretty clear fold.

    This is just another case of improperly assigning ranges to try to justify a call.

    simple and to the point
     
  17. Kelliher20 Kelliher20 is offline

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    Nov 2nd, 2009 (11/2/2009 10:28am) in reply to BobbyPossum

     
    Originally Posted by BobbyPossum View Post

    Granted it's early in the tourney but a shove is fine, only two hands that are beating you and his range here def includes 77-JJ. I shove and feel fine about it.

    what? open min raise and then a big 4 bet means 77-jj is in his range? you cant be real. why shove so many BBs to see the villian have KK+?
  18. Pokerl)evil Pokerl)evil is offline

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    Nov 2nd, 2009 (11/2/2009 2:33pm) in reply to Kelliher20

    I'd like to be the first one to point out that guys who mash the pot button in mid and low stakes tourneys preflop almost always have it, in this case AK, JJ, QQ, KK, AA. My first instinct would be to shove, and I would if the stacks weren't as deep or if it were a rebuy, but i think i fold based on the fact that he hit the pot button.
     21
  19. SpauldingSmails SpauldingSmails is offline

    Forestdale, MA
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    Nov 2nd, 2009 (11/2/2009 2:54pm) in reply to odstore

     
    Originally Posted by odstore View Post

    I feel like JJ has gotta be in his range which would make it a jam. I dunno though.

    JJ potentially being in his range hardly means its a 'jam'
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