I'm a tight played unless I'm short stacked. I had 4 people left to act in front of me.

It's a 45 man on FTP where the top 6 get paid.

To give you an idea, with him raising and 4 people left to act, I easily fold AQ here.

He's up against AK, KK, QQ, here... maaaybe depending on my mood AA or JJ.

I told him that I'd post it here and let him know what everybody said.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?4054079

Thanks for taking the time to take a look.

looks fine but i'd just be open shipping the 8's if i were him

I think there is a problem in communication.

(a) You are playing to win (aren't you?)?
(b) You want him to call so you have a chance to double up, don't you?
(c) If you answered yes to both of the above, you should be satisfied.
(d) If you don't want to double up, don't put all your chips in pre-flop.
(e) What difference does it make whether he made a good call, it's poker. Your only concern should be: Did I make a good play based on the information I had?
(f) You don't control the other player's decision making. His goals are in direct conflict with yours. If he decides that you are more likely to have over cards, he's on a short stack and is trying to find a way to get his chips in and double up.
(g) Your problem with the whole situation is now that you "didn't win," you want someone to "blame."

My whole point:
You have 17.84bb's and need a double up for a chance to win first place.

rryu87 has 14.56bb's and need a double up for a chance to win first place. Why do you think he should fold? Just so you can win uncontested?

He puts nearly 20% of his stack as the initial aggressor and you think he should fold a pocket pair, on a short stack. He has a good chance to get his money in as the favorite, if not he could suck-out. He's playing to win.

Let me pose a question to you. If he pushed in pre-flop, would you fold 'AK'? If you think about it this way, his initial raise was in effect a push all-in and you were calling his push.

I think you both played it correctly pre-flop because you are on short stacks and playing to win (aren't you?).

Maybe you don't understand poker yet.

Good call, no way can he fold 88 here as played. I think I am open shoving if him but whatever.

So, are you saying you are folding JJ? And what are you doing with AA (and why?) that is different than what you do with AK/KK/QQ?

And, yeah, you are a little on the tight side, loosen up a bit, being ahead all the time with your chips in the middle is overrated.

uhhh this is def a fine call....maybe you should tell him your sorry ...good call nice hand etc etc i mean fyi ......quads beat ace high lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZLSHuDBxY

 

Originally Posted by BguitarH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZLSHuDBxY

Who are you and how do you know of my love for OLP???

 

Originally Posted by Sdanby

so you charge on here with the hand telling him that we would all agree with you. we disagree wth you and now you try telling us we are ALL wrong. and so much lol at you folding JJ if you were him, so your basically open bluffing JJ with a 14bb stack, you clearly understand this game way more than anyone here

Come on now, I said that I appreciated everyone's responses and I meant that. I don't claim to know the game better then anyone who replied, except maybe the guy who insinuated that I don't understand the game yet. I was surprised to see the responses come out this way, yes. Maybe it is more of me having a misunderstanding of how people see my range. And when I say that I still believe this is "way -EV" that is simply based on calling vs. my actual range, not what other players might expect my range to be. As for JJ, I'm never in this situation w/ JJ here because I'm open shoving it everytime.

As for folding AQ after his raise here. Maybe it's too nitty, but that is what I'm doing. If we were to move the situation up and put him in the CO and me on the button, my range gets considerably wider. At that point I'm likely shoving AJoff+, KQs and 88+ over the top... if he's been raising in position alot, maybe any 2.

 

Originally Posted by BubbaKGB

 

Originally Posted by poncholoco

To give you an idea, with him raising and 4 people left to act, I easily fold AQ here.

This is a little too nitty. For the most part, people shove way too wide in these 45 mans because they don't realize there are no antes. Having said that, 99+ and AQo+ are clear winners in this situation, with AJ being a tough decision.

As for the actual hand, I think he can find a fold here some of the time, but making it 1600 is pretty bad - he should just be open shoving so hands like KJ/QJ don't shove thinking they have fold equity.

EDIT: Okay I actually ran some numbers and it turns out it's probably a bad call, which is again why he should just open shove and put the decision on his opponents.

The pot is 900 (just blinds) + 3200 (his raise and your call) = 4100. He needs to call 7140 the equity he needs is 7140/11240 = 63%.

Now if we assign YOU a range which is more reasonable (and not the really really tight range you assign yourself), we can figure this out.

Your reasonable range: 77+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo

So, if that's the case and we do the pokerstove calcs keeping in mind he needs 63% equity to call, we find that...

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.841% 43.18% 00.66% 474648444 7293372.00 { 88 }
Hand 1: 56.159% 55.50% 00.66% 610063980 7293372.00 { 77+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

It is indeed a bad call.

Errrr that's not right. From a pure chip equity standpoint you never need 63% to call. You forgot to add on the chips he wins so it's like 7k/18k or whatever.

 

Originally Posted by CalBandGreat

So a lot of people who have a lot more success in this game then you, have told you that your range is very very far from optimal and all you can say is thay "maybe it's too nitty, but that is what I'm doing". Well what you are doing is very wrong and if you want to improve your results then you should change it. The reason why you are getting such negative responses is that it is arrogant for someone who hasn't put up any significant results to think that he knows better then standard optimal play. The idea that what you are doing is correct and that everyone else is shoving too light is crazy. Folding JJ is absolutely insane in this spot. Don't get all butt hurt, just learn from your mistakes and improve your game. There is a lot of money to be made in poker and to say that you do very well in these games and all other games is delusional.

I'm not understanding this. I have a 25% ROI in this particular game... I'm constantly trying new things to get a feel for different types of play and how they work out in the $26 45-mans on FTP. I'm completely fine with a negative response. That's why I posted. I've gotten the info I was looking for. For you to tell me what I'm doing is wrong... THAT is what is quite arrogant. To say that I have not put up significant results is completely dependent on the person. I think I have put up fine results.

As far as me saying "I do well in these games," (something I actually said) that is far from delusional. As for me saying "I do very well in all games." I at no point said that... so get your facts straight and try not to sound so much like a dick.

Coming and posting in a very condescending "you've never had any success, you're game sucks, and your poker theory sucks." way is not really what I was looking for. I got what I was looking for and I appreciate the people who've helped me get it. However, I found absolutely no value in anything you've said. So thank you for nothing.

 

Originally Posted by poncholoco

 

Originally Posted by CalBandGreat

So a lot of people who have a lot more success in this game then you, have told you that your range is very very far from optimal and all you can say is thay "maybe it's too nitty, but that is what I'm doing". Well what you are doing is very wrong and if you want to improve your results then you should change it. The reason why you are getting such negative responses is that it is arrogant for someone who hasn't put up any significant results to think that he knows better then standard optimal play. The idea that what you are doing is correct and that everyone else is shoving too light is crazy. Folding JJ is absolutely insane in this spot. Don't get all butt hurt, just learn from your mistakes and improve your game. There is a lot of money to be made in poker and to say that you do very well in these games and all other games is delusional.

I'm not understanding this. I have a 25% ROI in this particular game... I'm constantly trying new things to get a feel for different types of play and how they work out in the $26 45-mans on FTP. I'm completely fine with a negative response. That's why I posted. I've gotten the info I was looking for. For you to tell me what I'm doing is wrong... THAT is what is quite arrogant. To say that I have not put up significant results is completely dependent on the person. I think I have put up fine results.

As far as me saying "I do well in these games," (something I actually said) that is far from delusional. As for me saying "I do very well in all games." I at no point said that... so get your facts straight and try not to sound so much like a dick.

Coming and posting in a very condescending "you've never had any success, you're game sucks, and your poker theory sucks." way is not really what I was looking for. I got what I was looking for and I appreciate the people who've helped me get it. However, I found absolutely no value in anything you've said. So thank you for nothing.

Alright, i re-read what you said, you said that you do well in most games, not all games, sorry, but my point remains the same. Fine take offense and don't learn how to get better, no skin off my back. You say that you got the info that you were looking for, I hope for your sake that you take that advice and open up your shoving range, although you have made no indication that you will do so. I didn't say that you were a losing player or that you have never had any success, I said everyone in this thread agrees that your range is way too tight, many of these players who have had a lot more success then you. There is a lot of money to be made in this game and until you are at the top (just to be clear I'm in no way saying that I'm close to the top, which is why if I post a hand I will have an open-mind to what people say) you should be willing to make changes if it is clear that you are making a mistake. I feel that 15 people saying the same thing, some of them good payers, should make it clear that you are making a mistake.
But it is true that I pretty much did say that your poker theory sucks. Trust me, any good player is going to say that folding JJ or easily folding AQ in this spot is sucky poker theory. It is not just me saying it, I'm agreeing with everyone else in this thread. Now if you say that the guy is super-super tight or if you had seen him jam that stack with marginal hands and raise small with that stack with a monster, then we might be open to listening to your reasons for folding AQ/JJ, but this is not the case as he had 88, so that read doesn't exist. You posted a hand trying to show someone else that they were wrong and it blew up in your face and now you are embarrassed by that, get over it and learn from it.

 

Originally Posted by BigSlim

he has already stated that he wouldnt never be in that situation with JJ in the first place due to open shoving with it.

I am not sure whether I agree or disagree with him, but atleast get off his back about the JJ, thank you:)

What? How can he open shove if the other guy already raised? Please read the hand again. I'm saying he should 3 bet shove the AQ and JJ (and more hands then this as well) and he is saying that he would insta fold AQ and might fold JJ.

If you play normal poker it's an easy call. If your range is really only QQ+ you need to learn how to play.

Standard, lol@ folding 88 thurrrr