Okay in this hand what do you put cashtorg on? What do you guys think of his turn bet is my biggest question? And what kind of hand do I need to call/shove the turn over his turn bet?

So..
1) What do you think cashtorg has?
2) What do you think of his turn bet? What comes to mind when you see this..
3) What do I need to call/shove on his bet on turn?

Seat 1: agriffrod (230408 in chips)
Seat 2: cashtorg (255275 in chips)
Seat 3: PMJackson21 (81749 in chips)
Seat 5: bigegypt (300833 in chips)
Seat 6: Kraclob (144586 in chips)
Seat 7: bjp6054 (72379 in chips)
Seat 9: Cre8ive (161775 in chips)
agriffrod: posts the ante 500
cashtorg: posts the ante 500
PMJackson21: posts the ante 500
bigegypt: posts the ante 500
Kraclob: posts the ante 500
bjp6054: posts the ante 500
Cre8ive: posts the ante 500
cashtorg: posts small blind 2500
PMJackson21: posts big blind 5000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Cre8ive [xx]
PMJackson21 said, "nh gg"
bigegypt: folds
djk123 is connected
Kraclob: folds
bjp6054: folds
Cre8ive: raises 7880 to 12880
agriffrod: folds
cashtorg: calls 10380
PMJackson21: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js 7c 2h]
cashtorg: checks
Cre8ive: bets 18300
cashtorg: calls 18300
*** TURN *** [Js 7c 2h] [4d]
cashtorg: bets 38500
Cre8ive: ?????

I find this line to be the nuts like 94.7% of the time, and fortunately the morons that take this line with the nuts don't take it with anything else and its extremely easy to avoid. There is absolutely no chance that cashtorg doesn't get it t in pre with JJ+ given his ridiculously lagtardish style so to be completely 100% honest I think his range is 77 and 22 only.

I think I need 77 or JJ to raise this turn bet (of the hands in your reasonable range), but to avoid becoming ridiculously exploitable I think I call one turn bet with AJ+ maybe 88+ just in case what i said above is wrong and he is taking some extremely awkward value line with JT-KJ. There really isn't any value raising the turn here without JJ or 77 imo. To be completely honest a fold is probably correct without 77 or JJ, which if correct is kinda embarrassing for cashtorg given how transparent his line is.

I've seen players check/call flop and lead turn small as a sort of semibluff / see a cheap river with a draw of some sort, but with the significant sized bet on the J742 absolutely no drawS rainbow board this is impossible, and makes it even more likely that cashtorg has a huge hand.

Watch after ripping on cashtorg he probably showed like 89s.

Considering there no reads given very tough to assign hand range here. Its a pretty dry board so imo his lead is either a marginal hand or air. I dont think he leads a set here because there is not much he will get action from. I can see him leading out marginal hands to see where he is at and to possibly take control of the hand, so if raised he will probaly fold. Hands id include in his range would be AJ, KJ, QJ, JT, TT, 99, 88, A7, 97, 87 (though 7x hands arent as likely).

I would also put air in his range as his lead can get you to fold hands you would open with that could possibly be good here such as TT, 99, 88, AK, AQ, QJ, JT, J9.

The worst hands im calling here with are QJ, TT, 99 and then reevaluating on the river

I would also just call with stronger hands such as AJ, QQ, KK, AA, a set, because i think as played you will get more value on river then by raising the turn.

If i think he is capable of leading air here, or i think he can get off a marginal hand then i will bluff raise here, preferebly with overcards or some outs.

again hard to tell without reads hope this helps

Edit: After seeing SC's post id like to delete this lol

When you get enough answers can you show us what your cards are before posting the entire hh plz?

89s imo

Actually.... it looks like his turn bet is just above half the pot, I would expect him to lead out more if this were a bluff.

That turn card could be sick. 22, 44, 77

i also think this looks like a bluff, why would he lead out with a strong hand?...there's no draw to guard...222 and 777 just arent vulnerable in that spot, he checks the turn with those hands guaranteed. he raises the flop with AJ KJ ect. this is a bluff imo

I guess it's been a while since the original post, so ok:

Hero - QQ
Villain - 77 (good call SCT)

I can't remember the action on the turn exactly (whether cre8ive shoved or made a smaller re-r and got shoved on), but they got it all in and the set of 7s held.

is 44 out of his range here?? considering such a raggy flop. I find cashtorg to float a flop and bet when he hits a card. i'm not sure 22 and 77 bet this turn card since the 4 just doesn't help any real draws, i think he may check call to extract value if he has 22 or 77. I can't see him bluffing this turn when this card obv doesn't help anyone (or so we think). But then again....i'm only learning lvl 2 thinking and haven't advanced yet

The thing that scares me is the check/call on the flop and then the lead on the turn. What kind of hands do people do this with? I'm sure at the higher buy-ins, with more levels of thinking, this could be more common, but I only see this done in the lower/mid levels with monster hands.

i reckon its a bluff that boards so dry i reckon hed check set there

Hard to post anything after SC. Wow, talk about reading someones soul.

Not knowing the guy as well, AJ, KJ could be in the range of his calling your C bet and leading. If you always C bet after your raises he can float and lead the turn if you have AK, AQ and missed over even 10-10 with J as scare card, then you have to release to his turn bet.

I think I go broke here most of the time.

If you fold to his bet on turn you still have 130K, more than 2 other players at the table and probably seeing significant increase in money for the next 2 spots? Tough to do on this board though. We played by cashtorg to not raise on flop and give away strength of his hand right away.

Cre8ive, how long did you think about it before the shove.

Well, the 100r plays out differently than most tournaments, as most of the players are very aggressive and I think given this hand and the situation, almost any player in the 100r is going to go broke here. I could be mistaken on that statement but thats just what I believe. I definitely was worried about his cold call from the small blind but I had been playing at the same table with him in the 1k last night and knew he was pretty aggressive. I think I might of checked behind on the turn if he checked to me, I almost checked the flop as well, but I think given the tournament, the player, and the aggression level of the 100r its too tough of a hand to just fold. Overtime I will be losing money if I fold in that spot so I think it was just unlucky.

I didnt think too long before I shoved. There are a lot of hands in his range here I beat:
AJ, KJ, QJ, JT, J9, J8 (maybe if they are suited the last 3) 99 TT 88, and any bluffing hand.

Then hands that beat me are obviously, KK, AA, JJ, 77, 22 and 44. So it seems like I can beat more of the hands he might have rather than hands that beat me, which is why I ended up shoving.

Oh, and the pay money jump has no significance. I am playing to win. I definitely felt like the turn bet was strong, but I just couldnt see him firing a turn bet with a set and limiting the hands I PAY HIM OFF WITH. I thought he would definitely check a set again and hope I would fire. I really think his turn bet is bad. <<< I'd like to know if other people think this is true as well.

-Cre8ive

i think set is possible as is 7x, 89, some jacks and possibly air, as well as kk, aa maybe. i take this line wiht a variety of hands, depending on the guy i'd ship wiith a diff. variety. don't know enoubh about cashtorg to know what line i'd take.

SC, are you saying that when the hero bets the flop and gets called he should be giving up on the hand, after the lead on the turn...

Also OP talked about hand ranges...is this guy so vietcongish that he would actually flat with KJ QJ OOP??