pokerstars Game #6242410039: Tournament #30627089, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (1250/2500) - 2006/09/10 - 20:48:00 (ET)
Table '30627089 46' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Lenny (85011 in chips)
Seat 2: jimak (82969 in chips)
Seat 3: DeniH (39781 in chips)
Seat 4: misst74 (52347 in chips)
Seat 5: Mattman14 (92069 in chips)
Seat 6: Bebop86 (50615 in chips)
Seat 7: roady (11095 in chips)
Seat 8: QT576 (30573 in chips)
Seat 9: missnic27 (54230 in chips)
Lenny: posts the ante 125
jimak: posts the ante 125
DeniH: posts the ante 125
misst74: posts the ante 125
Mattman14: posts the ante 125
Bebop86: posts the ante 125
roady: posts the ante 125
QT576: posts the ante 125
missnic27: posts the ante 125
DeniH: posts small blind 1250
misst74: posts big blind 2500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bebop86 [As Qh]
Mattman14: folds
Bebop86: raises 3675 to 6175
roady: folds
QT576: folds
missnic27: calls 6175
Lenny: calls 6175
jimak: folds
DeniH: folds
misst74: calls 3675
*** FLOP *** [Ad Jc 7s]
misst74: checks
Bebop86: bets 5765
missnic27: calls 5765
Lenny: folds
misst74: calls 5765
*** TURN *** [Ad Jc 7s] [Ac]
misst74: checks
Bebop86: checks
missnic27: checks
*** RIVER *** [Ad Jc 7s Ac] [Ks]
misst74: checks
Bebop86: bets 8975
missnic27: calls 8975
misst74: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bebop86: shows [As Qh] (three of a kind, Aces)
missnic27: shows [Kh Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Aces)
missnic27 collected 62320 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 62320 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Jc 7s Ac Ks]
Seat 1: Lenny folded on the Flop
Seat 2: jimak (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: DeniH (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: misst74 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 5: Mattman14 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Bebop86 showed [As Qh] and lost with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 7: roady folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: QT576 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: missnic27 showed [Kh Kc] and won (62320) with a full house, Kings full of Aces

holla

just use the normal stars HH, that is f'd up

I think that you should have bet the turn too, but he was probably not giving up on KK here.

why such a small bet on the flop? 5765 into a 27k+ pot.

I think if you about 1/2 the pot on the flop, you will have a much better idea of what to do from there on. If he calls that on the flop and you push the turn, I don't see how he can call, and you would add about more than 33k to your stack.

1/2 pot or so on flop. you screwed up with the dinky flop bet. i never bet less post flop than the amount i raised to pre. it just looks weak as all hell.

the point is that i dont stack myself when i run into a better hand here.. apparently no1 understands that.. against 5252346 opponents, i dont think AQ is good here every time and im stacking off every time. if i bet half the pot, and someone shoves, what do i do? fold? that just seems silly to me.. holla

Let's not dog on the dude, he just wants some advice.

Here's my opinion:

I hate AQ first of all. <SPAN> </SPAN>

Anyhow, from<SPAN> </SPAN>your position, I’m still betting a standard 3 to 3.5xbb. <SPAN> </SPAN>I know you want to mix up your bets, but your bet was actually quite smallish.<SPAN> </SPAN>I think from your position pre-flop, and that bet, you get a wide variety of calls and you just can’t be quite certain what you’re being called with. <SPAN> On any given hand, t</SPAN>he same person might call your bet with KK, or T9 suited, for example. <SPAN> </SPAN>You have to bet more pre-flop, or fold.<SPAN> </SPAN>

But, okay, you bet, and you had a few callers.<SPAN> </SPAN>Take the pot on the flop. <SPAN> </SPAN>To me, you didn’t even attempt to take the pot on the flop. <SPAN> </SPAN>It’s as if you were slow playing with a bet that was….less than your pre-flop bet! <SPAN> </SPAN>You forced people to continue calling you (and sucking out).

First off, there is 27k in the pot after the pre-flop betting. <SPAN> </SPAN>You started with 50615, and after your pf bet (and ante), you had 44315. <SPAN> </SPAN>Let’s say you bet 14k into the pot (roughly half the pot), I don’t know how bad a player missnic is, however, I would HAVE to think she would put you on an ace. <SPAN> </SPAN>If she doesn’t, then she’s made a mistake regardless of the results of the hand. <SPAN> </SPAN>

You’re down to 30315, and let’s say she called your bet. <SPAN> </SPAN>The pot has roughly 55000 in it, and you get another ace on the turn. <SPAN> </SPAN>If you’re all in here, who can argue that you made a wrong move? <SPAN> </SPAN>Regardless of us knowing she had KK, your move would be completely justified. <SPAN> </SPAN>The pot would have 85315, and she would have to call another 30315, which is most of the rest of her chips.<SPAN> </SPAN>By now, she HAS to put you on an ace, but let’s say she doesn’t, and she calls, she just made an even bigger mistake. <SPAN> </SPAN>Of course, on the river, she would get lucky, but that doesn’t matter. <SPAN> </SPAN>You’re trying to exploit your opponents mistakes, and you would have done that regardless of the results.<SPAN> </SPAN>

I think people worry too much about people getting lucky against them. <SPAN> </SPAN>You can’t.<SPAN> </SPAN>You just have to do what’s right, and you definitely can’t let people see cards for cheap.

I see something here that other people may have over looked. This I think is a classic example of cute play. It took real effort to bet 6175 preflop I believe you had to manualy key that number in. Tis is a cute play to make you bet look bigger than it is. Again on the flop 5675 seems to me you were paying more attention to keying in your bet than the pot size and odds you were giving. You are giving almost 4 to 1 pot odds by trying to make a cute bet. Of ciurse you get 2 callers. When your third Ace hits you go 3 for 3 in the cute play department and check a 20k pot. True to form you make another cute under bet on the river. Other than that you only made 4 mistakes 1 - not betting enough PF 1 - Way under betting the folp and giving good odds. 3 - Checking trip Aces on the turn with 20K in the pot. 4 - Under betting the river when you were beat.

I remember this hand, but can't for the life of me remember what I had or why the hell I stayed in it for so long. I requested the hand history and I do show that I had a very, VERY marginal hand. However, the bets that I had to call to stay in until the river were small enough to make it statistically correct in calling, in accordance to the pot size. Of course, had I hit, I get paid off big time.

Anywho, I do know that after the showdow, Fellknight (RGP) and myself were specifically discussing this hand and how the Ace (BeBop86) made a huge mistake on the turn by not betting, and that's what happens when you try to slowplay. Especially with 3 players in the pot. BET that puppy, make those chasers PAY for trying to catch.

Especially in such a big event with such huge payouts, personal opinion of course.

Tanya Peck
MissT74

Raptor is for sure not "slowplaying" with the turn check. His hand sorta sucks and flop/turn are basically the shittiest spots imaginable.