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Hand From Venetian Deepstacks 1k

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  1. brehmer brehmer is offline

    Kalamazoo, MI
    United States

    Posts: 131
    Joined: Jul 07

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 6:44pm)

    this hand has been bothering me every since i got home from las vegas....i talked it over with the people i was there with and i got mixed opinions........

    I believe we are 7 handed at the final table at this point and the blinds are at 4/8k with an ante

    i am UTG with AKcc........i have around 500-550k in chips and i am the chip leader.....i open the pot to 22k.....player to my left named tom flat calls (tom is the only player at the table who could really hurt my stack as he is sitting with 400-500k......tom has not 3 bet since i have played with him......he flats with alot of hands (J 10 off to AQ) and the one big pot he played he flatted a raise from the bb with JJ and lead a 9 hi flop/was raised and then shoved) it folds to a young asian kid named phil who is very good (everyone kept talking about him finishing 40th in the wsop main event) he thinks and 3 bets to 82k(with about 200kish behind) 3 players fold and it comes to the player to my right.....i don't know his name but he kept talking about about finishing 3rd in aruba this year so i imagine he plays well.......he thinks and shoves for 200kish.......its now back to me......what do u do?

    edit : the player to my left (tom) imo is capable of flatting with pairs upto QQ and i do not believe he would fold 1010- QQ if i shoved
     
  2. gamma21 gamma21 is offline

    Redlands, CA
    United States

    Posts: 10,030
    Joined: Mar 06

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 6:48pm) in reply to brehmer

    Fold IMO
     
  3. willcutyou willcutyou is offline

    Kousséri
    Cameroon

    Posts: 770
    Joined: Nov 07

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 6:49pm) in reply to brehmer

    Probably fold it. imo there is no way that no one in this hand has a PP and that you aren't going to called. 'tom' could call you which would leave you 50/50 at best, the 3-better could have a wide range of hands, but this also has to include AA KK AK(too) QQ JJ etc. and the all-in is PP or maybe AQs imo. This is a fold especially taking into account your stack and the fact that you are in no desperate need to toss.
     
  4. ChuckSty ChuckSty is offline

    Durham, NC
    United States

    Posts: 2,358
    Joined: Oct 05

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 7:07pm) in reply to willcutyou

    if tom calls a 3rd all in with anything worse than kk if you shoved ak than he is awful. mathematicially speaking if the asian kid and the bb who 4 bet both had pairs below kings than the fold would be a -ev nightmare.

    i think alot of it comes down to what your image is and how that effects their ranges and then after taht it's a simple pot odds problem.

    My guess is that you have been fairly active and that tom sees alot of flops seeing that you think he'd call an utg raise with j10o, this makes me think asian kid thinks he has a ton of fold equity here on a 3 bet.

    so that aside bb might know this and also know if he 4 bets all in it's only getting called by the asian kid who is going to be priced in with any two so he might think some sort of not huge pair is good and also defintiley might think aq ak is good. Obviously he is repping kk or aa here but i think there is potentially some good evidence that he might not have a super strong hand but think he has 3 bettor beat and is gonna get some serious overlay if he's in a race. He also could easily have rockets.

    all this extra info makes me want to ship it, but i can talk myself into pretty much anything.
     1
  5. Blake801 Blake801 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 338
    Joined: Jun 07

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 7:14pm) in reply to ChuckSty

    I fold, dont like playing ak against 3-4 people all in.
  6. ChuckSty ChuckSty is offline

    Durham, NC
    United States

    Posts: 2,358
    Joined: Oct 05

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 10:21pm) in reply to Blake801

    doesn't matter if you like it or not, i don't like playing anything 3 or 4 handed all in, but sometimes you don't have a choice.
     1
  7. thefuture021 thefuture021 is offline

    Dallas, TX
    United States

    Posts: 8,797
    Joined: Apr 06

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 10:28pm) in reply to brehmer

    Me folds
  8. ChuckSty ChuckSty is offline

    Durham, NC
    United States

    Posts: 2,358
    Joined: Oct 05

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 10:32pm) in reply to thefuture021

    honestly i'd probalby fold too, i just wanted to get deep.
     1
  9. stsitron stsitron is offline

    Henderson, NV
    United States

    Posts: 1,526
    Joined: Jul 07

    Feb 27th, 2008 (2/27/2008 10:51pm) in reply to ChuckSty

    I fold too....

    This sorta reminds me of a hand in a 500 mtt I played at the APPT.
    We were down to 2 tables of 6 I was chip leader and pick up AK offsuit.

    im utg +1 and utg player was a very good mtt player and understood having to shove WIDE ranges when low on chips. He had an M under 5 and was basically shoving every single hand.

    He shoves UTG so I iso shove

    the player utg +2 shoves for about 75% of my stack

    the next two players fold
    the last sb tanks for awhile and shoves in for about 55% of my stack and probably had an average stack at the time. (obviously at this point it is safe to assume that my hand is either dead or I have 2-3 outs)

    The bb folds

    Utg had 97ss

    the player to my left laughs and shows AKos

    the sb shakes his head laughs and exposes AKos

    Now while being happy to see I only had about 20% of my stack in jeopardy I was disgusted by the sbs call and thought utg +2 made a very loose call also.

    I feel like too many people love to call off their stacks with AK in multiway pots.

    usually if you are at a race against a pair with that much action some of your outs have to be dead therefore it isnt even a race anymore.

    and sometimes you opponents will have you crushed with KK or AA.

    sorry for my ramble I just feel a fold is so much the better option here. Now if you have QQ in this spot I feel it is a much tougher decision.

    Can we see some results? Im guess they had AQ and JJ or something and you wouldve won and that is why it is bugging you a lot but I feel if you folded you made the right decision.
     
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