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Hand vs D1rtyR1v3r

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  1. King Balky King Balky is offline

    Norwalk, CT
    United States

    Posts: 135
    Joined: Sep 06

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 7:10pm)

    This hand is from last week but for some reason I keep thinking about it. It's still early in the tourney and I shoulda folded pre, but nassrat was throwing chips away so I was hoping to get in cheap and flop big. Am I ever ahead here or is this an easy fold?

    pokerstars Game #25172800207: Tournament #140492035, $150+$12 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/02/20 21:20:45 ET
    Table '140492035 68' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: pageh656 (2725 in chips)
    Seat 2: nassrat (1615 in chips)
    Seat 3: tampuret (2975 in chips)
    Seat 4: King Balky (4460 in chips)
    Seat 5: D1rtyR1v3r (3060 in chips)
    Seat 6: pepero428 (2810 in chips)
    Seat 7: *HM* (4450 in chips)
    Seat 8: mike121112 (1970 in chips)
    Seat 9: kuzman89 (2935 in chips)
    King Balky: posts small blind 15
    D1rtyR1v3r: posts big blind 30
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to King Balky [Qs 2c]
    pepero428: folds
    *HM*: folds
    mike121112: folds
    kuzman89: folds
    pageh656: folds
    nassrat: calls 30
    tampuret: calls 30
    King Balky: calls 15
    D1rtyR1v3r: checks
    *** FLOP *** [5s Qc 2s]
    King Balky: bets 90
    D1rtyR1v3r: calls 90
    nassrat: folds
    tampuret: folds
    *** TURN *** [5s Qc 2s] [Js]
    King Balky: checks
    D1rtyR1v3r: bets 210
    King Balky: ?
  2. NeverScaredB NeverScaredB is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 856
    Joined: Jul 08

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 7:12pm) in reply to King Balky

    I flat the turn with the Q-high flush draw and some decent boat draws, and probably c/f river unimproved.
    289 2 
  3. awween ftw awween ftw is offline

    Posts: 86
    Joined: Sep 08

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 7:47pm) in reply to NeverScaredB

     
    Originally Posted by NeverScaredB View Post

    I flat the turn with the Q-high flush draw and some decent boat draws, and probably c/f river unimproved.

    Don't c/f river if unimproved. you prolly have the best of it on the turn but you get no value by raising it. You shoulda led out on the turn, but as play call turn and call river unless counterfeited.
  4. NeverScaredB NeverScaredB is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 856
    Joined: Jul 08

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 7:50pm) in reply to awween ftw

     
    Originally Posted by awween ftw View Post

     
    Originally Posted by NeverScaredB View Post

    I flat the turn with the Q-high flush draw and some decent boat draws, and probably c/f river unimproved.

    Don't c/f river if unimproved. you prolly have the best of it on the turn but you get no value by raising it. You shoulda led out on the turn, but as play call turn and call river unless counterfeited.

    I don't like leading the turn tbh. I think you are ahead of his range but bet/folding the turn sucks when you have equity against a lot of flushes and you're folding most of the hands that you beat. I like a check and a river bet if checked. I don't think he's firing two barrels here with a lot worse than top and bottom.
    289 2 
  5. Wiscomurray Wiscomurray is offline

    Madison, WI
    United States

    Posts: 996
    Joined: Feb 06

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 7:51pm) in reply to awween ftw

    its a limped pot pre, and he prob turned the flush with something like 7s8s. Ive known d1rty for a long time, and this would be std for him:)
     2
  6. tmleafs1967 tmleafs1967 is offline

    Strathroy
    Canada

    Posts: 1,350
    Joined: Mar 08

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 8:19pm) in reply to Wiscomurray

    ^^^^ This......

    Chuck Norris won't fcuk with dirty so you should know better aswell.
  7. U2ForNow U2ForNow is offline

    Scottsdale, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 273
    Joined: Feb 09

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 8:45pm) in reply to tmleafs1967

    I am pretty new here but I would like to take a shot at what is going on here. You have outs and about a 13% chance of hitting the flush. I think, please correct me if I am wrong.

    The fact that he checked and called before betting would have have me a little worried. I would flat it and see the next card. I would guess that he hit the turn, or is on a draw.

    I watched him play a few night ago and it was hard to put him on a hand. He seemed pretty aggressive.

    So what happened?
  8. Chickenbrad Chickenbrad is offline

    Bend, OR
    United States

    Posts: 360
    Joined: Jan 09

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 8:56pm) in reply to U2ForNow

    Pretty obvious that if you call him down and he shows you a flush, than you will lose.
    However if it goes check-check on the river you win.
    If he is bluffing and you fold you will lose anyway.

    I hope this helped.
  9. Veteran In Love Veteran In Love is offline

    VA
    United States

    Posts: 171
    Joined: May 07

    Feb 26th, 2009 (2/26/2009 10:02pm) in reply to King Balky

    ok just my two cents and not claiming to be 100% right, but laying down an underrepresented 2p in this spot to an aggressive, creative player doesn't seem optimal. Here's why:

    1) you led out on the flop which looks like a mediocre queen, 2nd pair, straight or flush draw. of course you have 2p in this example but this would be the first impression of most players regarding your hand.

    With that in mind, Dirty in the BB could have just about anything, an open-ended draw with 3-4 or flush draw being most likely because there are 2 people behind. A set is also possible but with that many draws out in a limped pot, I would believe that a set/higher 2p/AQ or KQ is most likely raising to protect here.....

    2) so on the turn, now the flush draw completes. You checked the turn and that looks extremely like the range that I mentioned above (mediocre queen, 2nd pair, straight or flush draw). He could be betting a whiffed str8 draw and repping the flush since your hand is very underrepresented, or already have the flush.

    with all that being said, i like the idea of flat-calling here and re-evaluating based on what the river brings:

    one, you could pair the board and have a boat with a possible flush out there.

    two, if a spade that doesn't pair the board comes, it's hard to make a mistake by leading out or check/calling. He's not betting more into the pot unless he has the A of spades or air, and all lower flushes would most likely seek a showdown.
     
  10. busto_soon busto_soon is offline

    Groningen
    Netherlands

    Posts: 1,177
    Joined: Dec 06

    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 12:07am) in reply to King Balky

    fold pre, c/c turn, c/r river if hit.
    269 3
  11. Shrubbery Shrubbery is offline

    Naperville, IL
    United States

    Posts: 3,149
    Joined: Oct 07

    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 8:29am) in reply to King Balky

    Flat turn, check call if u hit a spade, checkraise if you hit a 2 or a Q
     1
  12. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

    Costa Rica

    Posts: 9,675
    Joined: May 08

    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 9:55am) in reply to Shrubbery

    Fold pre. If you pick up Q2o in the BB, don't bet unless the flop is all queens and/or deuces.

    It boggles my mind that you would want to play this hand.
    660 1
  13. Jax0910 Jax0910 is offline

    Burnham-on-Sea
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 404
    Joined: Jul 08

    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 9:57am) in reply to busto_soon

     
    Originally Posted by busto_soon View Post

    fold pre, c/c turn, c/r river if hit.

  14. King Balky King Balky is offline

    Norwalk, CT
    United States

    Posts: 135
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    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 10:44am) in reply to Jax0910

    <span>I folded.<span> </span>I just thought calling was a little spewy.<span> </span><span> </span>Because of his flat on the flop with two left to act I couldn’t put him on anything other than small spades.<span> </span>I didn’t think I was getting the implied odds if I hit.<span> </span>Maybe this is a leak and I should be more willing to gamble in these spots early on.</span>

    <span>Just one question to the people who said c/c turn and c/r river if hit – are you c/f river if it bricks?</span>
    Thread Starter
  15. bluefin bluefin is offline

    Apo, AE
    United States

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    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 10:51am) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    Fold pre. If you pick up Q2o in the BB, don't bet unless the flop is all queens and/or deuces.

    It boggles my mind that you would want to play this hand.

    Would the odds that pot is offering you come into play pre? OP has to call 15 into a 90 chip pot, giving him 6:1. Or with 3 players already in, get out while you still can?
  16. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

    Costa Rica

    Posts: 9,675
    Joined: May 08

    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 5:18pm) in reply to bluefin

     
    Originally Posted by bluefin View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post


    Fold pre. If you pick up Q2o in the BB, don't bet unless the flop is all queens and/or deuces.

    It boggles my mind that you would want to play this hand.

    Would the odds that pot is offering you come into play pre? OP has to call 15 into a 90 chip pot, giving him 6:1. Or with 3 players already in, get out while you still can?

    I think this HH is a perfect example of why to fold pre. You are putting yourself in tough spots for no reason. What are you doing on a QT4 flop? What about this board? The chances of winning a big pot this deepstacked with Q2o is incredibly small, while the chances of losing a lot more than 1 SB are pretty good when you can't fold top pair bottom kicker. If you were going to commit 1 SB and then only continue with the hand if you have the best hand it would kind of make sense calling, but the obvious problem is that the odds that you flop a monster are waaaaaaay less than 6:1.
    660 1
  17. LockedUpLifer LockedUpLifer is offline

    Cincinnati, OH
    United States

    Posts: 555
    Joined: Feb 09

    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 8:38pm) in reply to Pghfan987

    your looking to flop big with Q2o? how exactly does this hand ever flop big

    fold pre plz
  18. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

    Costa Rica

    Posts: 9,675
    Joined: May 08

    Feb 27th, 2009 (2/27/2009 8:44pm) in reply to LockedUpLifer

     
    Originally Posted by LockedUpLifer View Post

    your looking to flop big with Q2o? how exactly does this hand ever flop big

    fold pre plz

    This. I used too many words.
    660 1
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