pokerstars Game #28579913728: Tournament #165742131, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Match Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2009/05/24 19:31:35 ET
Table '165742131 6' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Roothlus (1580 in chips)
Seat 2: SmokinDonkey (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: Mrshortcall (1470 in chips)
Seat 4: Danny98765 (1570 in chips)
Seat 5: MCJS (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: fergwrx (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: mylast22 (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: jbudish (1450 in chips)
Seat 9: AJunglen7 (1440 in chips)
Danny98765: posts small blind 10
MCJS: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mylast22 [Js Jd]
fergwrx: folds
mylast22: raises 40 to 60
jbudish: folds
AJunglen7: calls 60
Roothlus: calls 60
SmokinDonkey: folds
Mrshortcall: calls 60
Danny98765: folds
MCJS: folds
*** FLOP *** [7c 6s 8d]
mylast22: checks
AJunglen7: checks
Roothlus: bets 200
Mrshortcall: folds
mylast22: folds
AJunglen7: folds
Uncalled bet (200) returned to Roothlus
Roothlus collected 270 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 270 | Rake 0
Board [7c 6s 8d]
Seat 1: Roothlus collected (270)
Seat 2: SmokinDonkey folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Mrshortcall (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Danny98765 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: MCJS (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: fergwrx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mylast22 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: jbudish folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: AJunglen7 folded on the Flop
It was the third hand in and didnt like how big the pot was as well as my position as well as the flop. Is this absolutley terriable and just a sign that I am not comfortable at this level or is it ok to just play safe and wait? I know most will say worst fold ever and i should of c bet the flop but with three others in how often does not one of them hit that flop?

Really? just check fold? maybe i should be doing this more often

c-betting is best move, go from there

Yes, you do, but that's no reason to fail to cbet there.

In a semi-parallel, if you raise A7 on the button you will usually have to let it go if you are raised, but you still need to raise that A7.

JJ is still better than most hands and checking is just allowing an overcard to draw out on you, or worse, letting a hand you crush take the pot away from you. If you get raised on that board, then you can let it go because at that point you are likely behind.

 

Originally Posted by apairinmypoc

It was the third hand in and didnt like how big the pot was as well as my position as well as the flop. Is this absolutley terriable and just a sign that I am not comfortable at this level or is it ok to just play safe and wait? I know most will say worst fold ever and i should of c bet the flop but with three others in how often does not one of them hit that flop?

Are you asking whether youre comfortable at this level, or admitting it and asking whether others can tell?

If you have to ask whether youre comfortable, then youre not. Looks like you rarely play these buy-ins and got intimidated. Once you failed to cbet the pot was up for grabs imo.

I don't think c/f'ing isn't that bad... I kinda like it with these stacks/your position... just b/c harrington says c-bet every flop doesn't always mean you should... and Js rly aren't good often on here, and like you said, your position sucks c-betting 1st to act into 4 ppl on one o the worst boards... no one's gonna bet this flop w/ complete air anyways... I dunno, c-betting and c/f'ing are close (I go c/f tho), folding once you check is super standard, c/c'ing isn't rly an option

I like c/f better than r/f in this particular spot. Was this the shootout sat?

really bad

def c bet and as played

definetly just call the flop and reevauluate the turn

 

Originally Posted by pikappraider78

 

Originally Posted by ratsauce89

Thats the easiest fold I've ever seen

what???? so your opening jj to set mine and check foldign a 8 high flop.

No. He's not 'setmining' w/ JJ but this isn't a good flop for JJ 4-way... how are you gonna call for 200 of your 1500 OOP vs. a good thinking player? I don't think it'll be profitable... this would be a bit more reasonable if you had like 3k chips but you can't really mess around here... this is gonna be super marginal, and you're never gonna win a ton of chips when you're ahead, but you could easily lose a ton if you're behind.... if you're behind you have like little to no equity either

raise to 80

i dont see any reason not to be the flop. there are no flush draws out there and assuming that someone has to have flopped a set or a straight seems way to passive to me. that being said, i wouldnt exactly fire pot here or anything given that the board is pretty connected. if called, i probably fire 1/2 on the turn and hope i dont get shoved on. if i get shoved on, you probably have to fold with 1000 chips left or so. check/calling seems pointless because a guy like roothlus is probably not going to give you a free ride to the river and youre just gonna have to fold anyways

also, to these people who love talking about 'having a plan', and how this is a bad spot for JJ. it seems to me that raising pre with JJ and check folding on an unders flop is basically the definition of not having a plan. the plan changes throughout the hand depending on what your opponents do. but in this case, you sort of have to protect your hand here do you not? Sure, it sucks to have 3 callers here, but you still have an overpair to the board so you should usually bet it and hope to take it down. if you get raised, or called, then you often have to shut down and hope for cheap showdown.

I think this is like a clear shove every time if you decide to check the flop here in a $200 turbo shootout with 1500 chips. What's funny is I think I had you beat.

 

Originally Posted by downbylaw11

also, to these people who love talking about 'having a plan', and how this is a bad spot for JJ. it seems to me that raising pre with JJ and check folding on an unders flop is basically the definition of not having a plan. the plan changes throughout the hand depending on what your opponents do. but in this case, you sort of have to protect your hand here do you not? Sure, it sucks to have 3 callers here, but you still have an overpair to the board so you should usually bet it and hope to take it down. if you get raised, or called, then you often have to shut down and hope for cheap showdown.

What do you mean raising pre and c/f'ing unders flop is not having a plan??? sometimes you have to fold overpairs. Like you said, the plan changes throught the hand... when you get flatted in 50 spots then the flop comes 678 sometimes that's a time to change your plan of 'get it in on any flops w/ no overssss'. The thing is you could bet and get raised and find out where you're at, but if you check, you can get the same info for cheaper when someone fires 2/3 pot into 3 ppl here. No one's doing this 'light', and considering the villains they're not gonna have like A8 here, it's gonna be some sort of combo-draw if not a made hand already...

If you c-bet and get called, it's not gonna be profitable to put any more money in the pot anyways, and being out of position vs. solid villains is just gonna put you in an awkward spot where you're folding the best hand when TT/99/89 or w/e raises flop or bets the turn when you inevitably check... I think c-betting is fine if you plan to get it in here (which would be good at lower stakes), but competent players aren't gonna be shipping any 9x in, and aren't gonna be betting this flop with any intent to shut down on later streets or fold to a raise.

The situation would be much diff if: 1) you had position, 2) you didn't get flatted in 3 spots 3) the board wasn't so coordinated... since you're out of position in a multi-way pot on this board it's just brutal. The situation's just so marginal there has to be easier spots to get chips, you don't have to fight for every pot you raise, and protect every hand that might be best.

 

Originally Posted by SCTrojans

seems fine

thanks again for all the replies i guess with all the disagreement over the hand it wasnt a totally standard hand. I really took the line that Vekked talked about during the hand but I usually never would take that line (c/f) and the hand bugged me afterwards. Being a results oriented donk I am glad roothluss said he thinks he had me beat even if i was supposed to get it in.

this fold is absolutely horrible