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hand vs toilet-o am i a moron if i call? (already a moron for betting)

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  1. Dead Money Dom Dead Money Dom is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 985
    Joined: Apr 08

    Mar 11th, 2009 (3/11/2009 12:16am)

    pokerstars Game #25832941230: Tournament #145825875, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2009/03/10 23:59:23 ET
    Table '145825875 114' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 1: WarGawd (12561 in chips)
    Seat 2: ridgewarrior (14354 in chips)
    Seat 3: BleedBlue33 (10013 in chips)
    Seat 4: HEYBABBITT (20315 in chips)
    Seat 5: KATELYNSDAD (4238 in chips)
    Seat 6: The-Toilet 0 (15819 in chips)
    Seat 8: buller00 (26701 in chips)
    Seat 9: DRTWIN (9608 in chips)
    WarGawd: posts the ante 50
    ridgewarrior: posts the ante 50
    BleedBlue33: posts the ante 50
    HEYBABBITT: posts the ante 50
    KATELYNSDAD: posts the ante 50
    The-Toilet 0: posts the ante 50
    buller00: posts the ante 50
    DRTWIN: posts the ante 50
    DRTWIN: posts small blind 300
    WarGawd: posts big blind 600
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to buller00 [Th Qh]
    ridgewarrior: folds
    krivoy75 is connected
    BleedBlue33: folds
    HEYBABBITT: folds
    KATELYNSDAD: folds
    The-Toilet 0: raises 800 to 1400
    buller00: calls 1400
    DRTWIN: folds
    WarGawd: folds
    *** FLOP *** [9d Jd 7d]
    The-Toilet 0: checks
    buller00: checks
    *** TURN *** [9d Jd 7d] [8s]
    The-Toilet 0: checks
    buller00: bets 1200
    The-Toilet 0: calls 1200
    *** RIVER *** [9d Jd 7d 8s] [Kc]
    The-Toilet 0: checks
    buller00: bets 2400
    The-Toilet 0: raises 10769 to 13169 and is all-in
    buller00: ???????????
     
  2. Chickenbrad Chickenbrad is offline

    Bend, OR
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    Mar 11th, 2009 (3/11/2009 3:10am) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    wow, that is a strange way to play a hand. I don't know what to tell you other than be careful, it looks like he read you like sunday's paper.

    Honestly, his line here is very strange. Assuming he's a good player, I can't see him checking any hand to you on all 3 streets and then raising on the end except the nuts or a bluff. Like I said, I wouldn't check the nuts to someone 3 streets in a row unless I knew them really well. Even then I thinking checking it to trap is bad, because if another diamond htis your hand loses some value(even though it's still the nuts).

    What other hand would checkraise here? I can't imagine checkraising 2 pair or a straight or anything like that. I'm guessing if you get called he's going to show you Ad with another card that isn't a diamond, king, or ten.

    I don't think your bet here is bad, you are probably ahead and you have a great spot to try and extract value. Against a bad player I would muck, if I know it's a thinking player probably I'm calling.
  3. odstore odstore is offline

    Cleveland, OH
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    Mar 11th, 2009 (3/11/2009 11:17am) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    That's pretty sick. I think you got your soul read but I'm not sure I could fold.
  4. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

    White Rock
    Canada

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    Mar 11th, 2009 (3/11/2009 3:43pm) in reply to odstore

    So you bet 1/3 pot on turn, then again like 1/3 pot on river and you're wondering if he ever bluffs the river? Your line is so weak that he can defiantely float the turn with a lot of random draws/pairs and bluff shove the river. He may wake up with nuts sometimes but I think you're ahead often enough to call here.
     
  5. pkalevar pkalevar is offline

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    Mar 11th, 2009 (3/11/2009 4:08pm) in reply to rivverkiller

    iawtc
  6. Dead Money Dom Dead Money Dom is offline

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    Mar 11th, 2009 (3/11/2009 5:24pm) in reply to odstore

     
    Originally Posted by odstore View Post

    That's pretty sick. I think you got your soul read but I'm not sure I could fold.

    i dont have a soul.
     
    Thread Starter
  7. Rad_Dude Rad_Dude is offline

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    Mar 13th, 2009 (3/13/2009 4:10pm) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    No offense to you but looking at the play here I just want to puke. I play mostly 11 and less buy ins and everytime I move up to 55 etc I see more of this garbage play then I do at lower stakes. Personal frustration of guys calling down 2/3 outers etc like this, just boggles my mind.
  8. sotti sotti is offline

    Portland, OR
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    Mar 13th, 2009 (3/13/2009 7:02pm) in reply to Rad_Dude

     
    Originally Posted by Rad_Dude View Post

    No offense to you but looking at the play here I just want to puke. I play mostly 11 and less buy ins and everytime I move up to 55 etc I see more of this garbage play then I do at lower stakes. Personal frustration of guys calling down 2/3 outers etc like this, just boggles my mind.

    Yeah but that doesn't describe this hand at all.

    Our hero made the nut straight on the turn, still had the nut straight when the king peels off.

    Our villian either has a flopped flush, or our hero has the best hand.

    Air or the nuts for the villian, without any other history on the guy you can't really tell.

    Hell he might have a set of kings and think it's best.
  9. the_schmenx the_schmenx is offline

    Burgh
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    Mar 13th, 2009 (3/13/2009 7:26pm) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    Don't make value bets vs. good wacko players on the river unless you are prepared to call when they put you to the test.

    What is the point of the bet on the river?

    If you make this bet on that board with that hand, you should already know what you are going to do if he raises.
  10. elgordo420 elgordo420 is offline

    Puerto Rico

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    Mar 13th, 2009 (3/13/2009 9:15pm) in reply to the_schmenx

     
    Originally Posted by the_schmenx View Post

    Don't make value bets vs. good wacko players on the river unless you are prepared to call when they put you to the test.

    What is the point of the bet on the river?

    If you make this bet on that board with that hand, you should already know what you are going to do if he raises.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
  11. Chickenbrad Chickenbrad is offline

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    Mar 14th, 2009 (3/14/2009 6:56pm) in reply to Rad_Dude

     
    Originally Posted by Rad_Dude View Post

    No offense to you but looking at the play here I just want to puke. I play mostly 11 and less buy ins and everytime I move up to 55 etc I see more of this garbage play then I do at lower stakes. Personal frustration of guys calling down 2/3 outers etc like this, just boggles my mind.

    You have no idea what you're talking about. The only bad play he made the entire hand is calling a raise with QT, and that isn't even all that terrible.
  12. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

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    Mar 14th, 2009 (3/14/2009 10:09pm) in reply to Rad_Dude

     
    Originally Posted by Rad_Dude View Post

    No offense to you but looking at the play here I just want to puke. I play mostly 11 and less buy ins and everytime I move up to 55 etc I see more of this garbage play then I do at lower stakes. Personal frustration of guys calling down 2/3 outers etc like this, just boggles my mind.

    I play mostly higher buyins then you and your post makes me want to puke. What part of this hand do you consider garbage? What would you do in this situation? You do realize the flop went check/check and then we turned a straight right? You could argue the preflop call was a little loose, but the Toilet is probably opening any 2 playable cards there and Q10s will flop decently enough, especially in position where I don't think it's a horrible call. Toilet either has the nuts or air on the river. Nothing else really makes sense. I don't think he's showing up with the nuts very often either.

    I wish there was a rule in HA where you weren't even allowed to post without adding something to the topic...
     
  13. Dead Money Dom Dead Money Dom is offline

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    Mar 16th, 2009 (3/16/2009 1:59am) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    results: i snap called and he had ace diamonds three spades

    i'm gonna post my thought process in the morning or afternoon.
     
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  14. Chickenbrad Chickenbrad is offline

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    Mar 16th, 2009 (3/16/2009 4:44pm) in reply to Dead Money Dom

     
    Originally Posted by Dead Money Dom View Post

    results: i snap called and he had ace diamonds three spades

    i'm gonna post my thought process in the morning or afternoon.

    damn I love it when I'm right.
  15. Dead Money Dom Dead Money Dom is offline

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    Mar 17th, 2009 (3/17/2009 1:43am) in reply to Chickenbrad

     
    Originally Posted by Chickenbrad View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Dead Money Dom View Post

    results: i snap called and he had ace diamonds three spades

    i'm gonna post my thought process in the morning or afternoon.

    damn I love it when I'm right.

    you're one of the only reasons i posted the real results, your post was gooda nd spot on. i didnt have time today to post thoughts but will during my early session tomorow.
     
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  16. MikeBucks MikeBucks is offline

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    Mar 17th, 2009 (3/17/2009 1:19pm) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    lol @ the people saying "why bet the river?" Maybe because you wanna get value out of your hand. The-Toilet-0's line makes zero sense. If he flopped the flush, you think he's gonna check two streets and gain zero value going to the river? Almost never, unless he's sure he's up against an aggro opponent that will fire bets on the turn and river (but extremely unlikely, especially if he doesn't know your game well or have seen you spewing in previous hands). Snap call the river shove (especially vs an aggro maniac like The-Toilet).
     
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