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Harrington's M

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  1. 56off56 56off56 is offline

    Richmond Hill
    Canada

    Posts: 455
    Joined: Sep 08

    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 2:16am)

    Just going through the book now.
    for those who read it, how important is to you, or do you think in terms of BB's and if so, when do you start shoving ATC when folded around to you?
  2. iatetheredcrayon iatetheredcrayon is offline

    Austin, TX
    United States

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 2:21am) in reply to 56off56

    i only think in BBs, but you need to be aware of the effect antes are having on your stacks and others and how that should affect your aggressiveness. shoving ATC can be done in lots of situations, you're not going to get a definite answer.
  3. threeven threeven is offline

    Tucson, AZ
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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 2:27am) in reply to iatetheredcrayon

    M def, you have to take antes into account. If you use BBs but adjust for antes then you are really just using M anyway.
    2
  4. Sbeezy3030 Sbeezy3030 is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 2:27am) in reply to 56off56

    Used to think in terms of M after I read it...then I asked Round42 what he does and he said BBs...so naturally I switched back to big blinds. I guess M is more important in big live tourneys when the antes are HUGE.
  5. StayCalm StayCalm is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 2:34am) in reply to Sbeezy3030

    I never understood the obsession with BB. It seems obvious to me that M is the right choice, am I missing something?

    Edit: because of the antes obviously..
    Edited By: StayCalm Jun 29th, 2010 at 02:35 AM
  6. 56off56 56off56 is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 2:41am) in reply to StayCalm

    k, so back to the original question, when do you start to panic and raise ATC all in?
    Thread Starter
  7. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 2:47am) in reply to StayCalm

     
    Originally Posted by Stay_calm86 View Post

    I never understood the obsession with BB. It seems obvious to me that M is the right choice, am I missing something?

    Edit: because of the antes obviously..

    bc BBs are usually easier to calculate (especially live)

    and everything else other than shove/fold is usually determined by BBs like 3betting/4betting, bet sizing and stuff like that

     
    Originally Posted by 56off56 View Post

    k, so back to the original question, when do you start to panic and raise ATC all in?

    to vague a question
     
  8. thearthurdog thearthurdog is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 3:15am) in reply to 56off56

     
    Originally Posted by 56off56 View Post

    k, so back to the original question, when do you start to panic and raise ATC all in?

    Never panic.

    As a general rule I shove 10-12 BBs without antes and 15 BBs with antes.

    Many situations arise though where I won't stick to that.
  9. RocKNdaFELT RocKNdaFELT is offline

    Springfield, OH
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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 4:23am) in reply to thearthurdog

    http://www.pocketfives.com/blogs/roc...points-568083/ check out my blog on M theory bro..Hope this helps
  10. trevor grady trevor grady is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 4:50am) in reply to RocKNdaFELT

    It only depends on how strong you hands are, if you have 2-3 off suit, even on the BB, you should throw your hand in as even hitting a pair you will still probably lose whether you have nothing to hit a set or a straight
  11. Faded TV Faded TV is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 5:00am) in reply to trevor grady

    M gives a more accurate picture, no good reason not to use it. Yes it's a bit harder to calculate live but honestly if you can't multiply the ante by the number of players in your head you need to work on your mental math skills. It's no harder than calculating pot odds or anything else.
  12. poisoneye1986 poisoneye1986 is offline

    Cincinnati, OH
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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 5:23am) in reply to Faded TV

    1000/2000/250

    pot=5250

    chip stack: 25000

    harrington advices shoving with an M of 5 or less.
  13. Wein Wein is offline Sunday Millionaire

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 5:26am) in reply to 56off56

     
    Originally Posted by 56off56 View Post

    k, so back to the original question, when do you start to panic and raise ATC all in?

    Poker is not this simple.
     
  14. tmac2424 tmac2424 is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 8:48am) in reply to trevor grady

     
    Originally Posted by trevor grady View Post

    It only depends on how strong you hands are, if you have 2-3 off suit, even on the BB, you should throw your hand in as even hitting a pair you will still probably lose whether you have nothing to hit a set or a straight

    this sure is a gem
  15. FivePercentTint FivePercentTint is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 9:09am) in reply to tmac2424

     
    Originally Posted by tmac2424 View Post

    this sure is a gem


    I have seen multiple absurd posts by this guy now and im starting to think his account is just a huge level
  16. BlueRenegade BlueRenegade is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 11:09am) in reply to FivePercentTint

    I usually use M until I'm under 20BB or so, then I switch to BB.

    I have a more general question about M though...I've read Harrington's books multiple times, and his discussion of play in the Yellow and Orange Zones is VERY limited. I understand that small pairs and suited connectors go down in value, because you're not getting the implied odds, but I'm not exactly sure what goes UP in value. Obviously you're willing to play AA down to the felt at this point, but I've seen advice for these Zones range everywhere from "tighten up" to "loosen up". Harrington does say to play your high cards more strongly...does he mean you're getting more aggressive and opening wider with stuff like AT, KJ, etc., or you're just being more willing to go bust with AK or a high pair? Never have quite seen a good explanation for these zones, anybody got any suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Blue
  17. WizardOfAz WizardOfAz is offline

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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 2:54pm) in reply to poisoneye1986

     
    Originally Posted by poisoneye1986 View Post

    1000/2000/250

    pot=5250

    chip stack: 25000

    Harrington advices shoving with an M of 5 or less.

    I don't remember If Harrington said move all in at 5 or 4 M but at an M of 5 I'm still choosing my hands. Once I get to 4 if its checked to me it's "All on baby ". With any 2.
  18. joeykukzMSU joeykukzMSU is offline

    Peoria, IL
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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 3:15pm) in reply to WizardOfAz

    A big detail in using either M or BB is applying to the game you are playing. I personally play a ton of the 3.30 90man KOs, so stacks are never deep late in tournies. Therefore i have to slide my scale of M and zones down where having an M of 6 is actually a solid stack at the final table.. shoving Ms of 10 with the same range of hands as a Deep Stack tourney is just bad buisness. You have to come up with a feel of table & game selection to change your range accordingly.
  19. Polar_Bears Polar_Bears is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6/29/2010 8:02pm) in reply to joeykukzMSU

    Cool little trick I learned because I am a BB guy also....Holdem Manager has it so you can add a players "M" to the HUD. If you are like me and stuck on BB's, it could help to get M down by having it above a players head all the time.
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