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Heads up $6.50 first hand river decision

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  1. kamakazmeee kamakazmeee is offline

    Rockville, MD
    United States

    Posts: 22
    Joined: Apr 07

    Jul 31st, 2007 (7/31/2007 10:58pm)

    I have absolutely no read on this guy as it is the first hand, I could raise OOP preflop but being the first hand I decide not to.

    Putting in the 3rd raise on the turn may have been a mistake but I was trying to knock out any flush/straight draw combinations or combo draws and I am almost 100% sure I have the best hand as the only hands he could have in my opinion that beat me are K 10 or 7-7.

    River decision....

    A. Shove, he can only call with a straight and there is 900 chips in the pot, and possibly he may call with a worse 2 pair
    B. Check and then re-evaluate on his action/get a cheap showdown
    C. Make a very small defensive blocking/value bet
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to kamakazmeee [As 7s]
    pokerboy3518 calls 15
    kamakazmeee checks
    *** FLOP *** [Jc 7c Qh]
    kamakazmeee checks
    pokerboy3518 checks
    *** TURN *** [Jc 7c Qh] [Ah]
    kamakazmeee bets 60
    pokerboy3518 raises to 120
    kamakazmeee raises to 420
    pokerboy3518 calls 300
    *** RIVER *** [Jc 7c Qh Ah] [Ts]
    kamakazmeee.......

    Results later
  2. xDragonFire xDragonFire is offline

    Lebanon, TN
    United States

    Posts: 506
    Joined: May 07

    Jul 31st, 2007 (7/31/2007 11:33pm) in reply to kamakazmeee

    likely c/fing, but im calling if he bets small
  3. Shiptothesails Shiptothesails is offline

    Los Altos, CA
    United States

    Posts: 123
    Joined: Jul 07

    Aug 1st, 2007 (8/1/2007 1:44am) in reply to kamakazmeee

    I check and fold to a shove and call smaller bets here.
     
  4. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
    United States

    Posts: 6,364
    Joined: Mar 06

    Aug 1st, 2007 (8/1/2007 12:31pm) in reply to kamakazmeee

    Well, you really brought this upon yourself not raising your ace preflop.

    You caught a piece of the flop and checked, now you got a King. Sure, you raised to get rid of some draws, but did you really?

    Aoubt 870 in the pot right now, I think you have an interesting problem. Any King could have hung around here and it's beating you. I think you have to check/call here. If he pushes all in, that's tough, but if you send a blocking bet, you could be in trouble if he has the King (he's raising).

    I check/call there, but if you were betting out the whole time, you wouldn't have this problem.
  5. thefuture23 thefuture23 is offline

    Springfield, OH
    United States

    Posts: 242
    Joined: Aug 06

    Aug 1st, 2007 (8/1/2007 4:06pm) in reply to lordxixor101

    I'm not trying to make you feel like an idiot, but the hand likely would have worked out better if it played out like this:

    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to kamakazmeee [As 7s]
    pokerboy3518 calls 15
    kamakazmeee raises to 90 or 120
    pokerboy3518 folds/calls 60 or 90
    *** FLOP *** [Jc 7c Qh]
    kamakazmeee bets 120 to 180
    pokerboy3518 folds/calls 120 to 180(assuming he doesnt raise)
    *** TURN *** [Jc 7c Qh] [Ah]
    kamakazmeee bets 300 to 400
    pokerboy3518 raises all-in
    kamakazmeee calls all-in
    *** RIVER *** [Jc 7c Qh Ah] [Ts]

    Now it's obviously tough to re-script a hand when you dont know what both players have, but I'm just throwing out what you probably should have done if he did act the way that I have him acting in my hand.

    Even with the way you played it I would be reraising everything after the turn, instead of just 300. There are WAY too many draw possibilities out there and by pushing all in he will either fold and you win or call and you will likely be a pretty good favorite to win. With his raise he is telling you that he is strong. You can probably exclude a strong ace for 2 pair since he didnt raise preflop, so you likely have the best hand if he also has 2 pair. K10 is a possibility, but I still dont think that's likely because of no raise preflop. What I'm putting him on is one of two things:

    A) He was trying to slow play 2 pairs after limping in with Q7 or J7 and is trying to protect his hand from draws with the raise after the turn. Or...
    B) He has a hand like K7 of hearts which would give him a pair, a gutshot straight draw and the nut flush draw after the turn.

    Obviously, since I have no read on the guy, these are just guesses, but I'd like to see how it played out.
  6. kamakazmeee kamakazmeee is offline

    Rockville, MD
    United States

    Posts: 22
    Joined: Apr 07

    Aug 1st, 2007 (8/1/2007 6:24pm) in reply to thefuture23

    Let me explain my logic for shoving
    1. Mathematically-He needs to not have a 10 here more than 1050/1950 times or 54% of the time in order to make shoving -EV
    2. He can call me down with a worse hand, suspecting that I am bluffing
    3. He can very well fold a better hand such as bottom set or a higher 2 pair
    4. Winning this pot is actually very important because a 1950 - 1050 chip advantage is huge in a heads up SNG
    5. I was on stone tilt from previous sngs :p

    *** RIVER *** [Jc 7c Qh Ah] [Ts]
    kamakazmeee bets 1,050, and is all in
    pokerboy3518 calls 1,050, and is all in
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    kamakazmeee shows [As 7s] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
    pokerboy3518 shows [4h Ac] (a pair of Aces)
    kamakazmeee wins the pot (3,000) with two pair, Aces and Sevens
    pokerboy3518 stands up
    kamakazmeee stands up
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 3,000 | Rake 0
    Board: [Jc 7c Qh Ah Ts]
    Seat 1: kamakazmeee (big blind) showed [As 7s] and won (3,000) with two pair, Aces and Sevens
    Seat 2: pokerboy3518 (small blind) showed [4h Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
    Thread Starter
  7. NetFan44 NetFan44 is offline

    New York City, NY
    United States

    Posts: 4,344
    Joined: Jun 06

    Aug 1st, 2007 (8/1/2007 7:06pm) in reply to kamakazmeee

    IMO, the river shove is total spew, you're lucky you got a worse hand to call you there

    EDIT - i like your analysis, but if he put you on the draw he probably would've just shoved the turn if he's any kind of player, bottom set and 2 pr combos usually will reshove the turn if they feel they have the best hand. i'm glad you went with your read but i think it's a -EV shove
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