OK time for some force fed humility for me. I am having a terrible time coming to grips with the fact that I cant beat this game. Have you seen some of the monkeys that play live 12nl? Some have no idea when they are beat. Some could never fathom folding top pair or even second pair. I wonder how many of them can walk and chew gum at the same time, yet I send them home with my money.

I really dont want this to sound like I'm crying. It seems that I am way ahead of everyone's skill level or at least seen more hands than almost all of them. I have a decent ROI in tournament play online with a large sample size. Please help me understand why this doesn't traslate to beating donks in a live game.

Play a game where they respect your raises.

 

Originally Posted by Bake Me A

Play Bigger. Money will be a bit more scared, and the people that actually have money want to play bigger. I would venture to say 1/2 is going to have more grinders and chasers, just a guess. Other than that, going by everything you just said you should be beating the game is that is how they play. It is not a leak in their game, it is obviously a leak in yours. You sound like you are blaming the bad players for the reason you cant win. In all reality this does not make sense. If I go and play basketball with 5 college players vs a high school unified team, we are going to be winning most of the time when they dont get lucky. gl.

I'm not blaming any1. Its hard for my ego to understand how I can sit at the table with ppl who know very little about poker and cant beat them. I played pool before poker and the sucker never gets out the door with the money. NEVER. If I sounded like i was making excusses I'm sorry. I was hoping a few cash game specialists would see this and point me in the right direction. There is obv something i am missing.

 

Originally Posted by sportguy91

Play a game where they respect your raises.

Yea I thought this too but it doesnt make a lot of sense to move up when you are not beating the lower level.....Or does it?

There are a very few 25NL games on the weekend around here but they are few and far between,

I was hoping this thread would be a discussion about the transition from online tourneys to live cash games.

Nit it up, they will pay you off when you have it.

Exploiting villains mistake is just THE key in all poker game, (as MarkFSU said) wait for hand they'll pay you off, this is clearly the adapted strategy in this spot.
I understand it can be boring to some point of view but that is how you will be the most +EV in those games and between us... This is an easy game !!
Also agree with the "go to higher limit when they respect your raises" is like just bs, do we play poker because we want to bluff ?? Nah, this sounds like -EV way to play. The whole poker strategy just does not goes that way.. Asking ourself why we do certain things must lead to the most advantageous answer in term of money, that is all.
Otherwise play poker for fun which is what a loooot of people do, me included in home games when I have chosen to.

 

Originally Posted by MarkFSU1

live is just a different game. ive been playing 2-5 live and you just have to be patient, very patient from what ive seen.

This is the only advice you need. Live is more boring, you suddenly feel like "opening" your game and making "moves," but all this does is just create spewing. If you're playing to grind you must be patient, observe your table, and eventually things will rush your way.

 

Originally Posted by GoBilliards

Ageed, Hard to tell a good story to a deaf kid. And bordom is a big deal considering we are talking maybe 20-25 hands per hour.

plus you are a NIT. so you might play 2 hands an hour. you might have to losen up a tiny bit and try and hit some big flops cheap when it's a limp fest

 

Originally Posted by bonflizubi

plus you are a NIT. so you might play 2 hands an hour. you might have to losen up a tiny bit and try and hit some big flops cheap when it's a limp fest

This is a big factor, I always see who the nits are and just fold to big raises or call 10 raise and crush there AA or KK with my 78suited. Try to see as many cheap flops as possible. 1/2 is easy to beat, but sometimes you have to call a 20 raise pre.

You HAVE to be doing something wrong if you're not beating live games up to 5-10NL consistently unless you're playing in a particularly tough game, although I can't fathom a single 1-2NL difficult table in the world.

If they call you with 2nd pair, don't bluff them, and value bet the living shit out f them when you have it.

Play position and 3 bet in position. I have been finding its most effective when you have maybe 2-3 limpers at the most then 3 bet your button or CO try to isolate to 1 or 2 ppl then c bet most boards. I havent been doing this with crap hands tho, mostly just with big A's suited broadways etc. Live players tend to not know what to do after the pot is 3 bet preflop and it is really easy to tell when they hit the flop, and they will mostly lead out into you and you can fold w/o having to put a c bet out there.

 

Originally Posted by bonflizubi

plus you are a NIT. so you might play 2 hands an hour. you might have to losen up a tiny bit and try and hit some big flops cheap when it's a limp fest

zubs. I dont have a lot of freinds on here but you are one of them. You might be off base here a little though. Without giving too much away, I have made major adjustments to my standard MTT game. Most of the BODONKS have me pegged as an agrotard which is also wrong. Its been a while since weve played at the same table maybe?

 

Originally Posted by double_kyan

depends on the players at ur tbl and is there a max buy-in to the game? THIS IS HUGE!!!l when it comes to half the complaints and half the advice i'm reading things really do depend on the max buy in are we talkn 100bux max, 500max, unlimited buy in, i play where lots of guys don't back down from a raise even if u have earned respect and dont get me wrong these are tough players but if ur at a table with some deep pockets and some decent skill level this is a deadly combo tht u have to prepare for

20-25 hands per hour is either a slow dealer or limpers with a flop everyhand and thats when i'm gnna dictate tht gm i'll tell u tht much ............TAME THE FAMILY LIMPERS.....i still remember the time i showed 3 garbage hands out of 5 dealt by raising the pre and each time the family limpers mucked assuming well he has to have it this time .....that set up the big bam pot when i was strong and raised the family limp society 3 hands later ..10x the bigs btw on a 1-2 nl..........tables with tons of family limpers need to be worked over :P

my sample size for this is very small. 10 sessions since i have been keeping books. I thought i knew how to beat the 12nl game long ago. When i became a viable online mtt player, I lost interest in 12nl because of the 25 hand per hour thing. Black friday has me interested again but im getting crushed now. Doesnt make sense at all to me.

The caps are $50.00 to $200.00 at the 12nl game and $200.00 to 500.00 in the 25nl game. With a $200.00 cap the rake seems huge but moving up just seems to hafta wait till im beating 12nl

 

Originally Posted by GoBilliards

Most of the BODONKS have me pegged as an agrotard which is also wrong. Its been a while since weve played at the same table maybe?

changing my notes on you right now.....

also, dont listen to the whole moving up to higher limits thing for respect of ur raises[/QUOTE]

THIS

lol was wondering the same thing. I always get crushed must be the free booze/ bluffing at old guys while drunk...

I agree that live 1-2nl is boring but its definitely profitable. Best advice I have is that patience pays off and don't get involved in limping too many hands. Position is important but I'm sure you already know that.

Remember that you don't have to raise just because its folded to you or weak players limped in. People love flatting open raises cause "they want to see the flop". With that just don't raise a7o because you have position on everyone. You won't have anyone dominated and its a mediocre hand. Since its a cash game you'll never be forced into a hand like your accustomed to in mtts. That's a leak I'm still plugging because its too easy to just want to attack limpers and weak players but you have to be patient and attack at the right times.

Showdown value is obv important but not necessarily in live 1-2 when there's so many multiway pots. I personally like raising all my good hands but mixing in small pairs, broadways, suited connectors or one gappers. I don't know how long you've played live cash but you'll find out which hands are playable and what isn't.

Another thing I like doing is flatting other players open raise when in position being hu or 3 ways in a pot. If you're good at reading people's bet sizes and if their cbet is a real hand or not, you'll be able to steal pots from people often. I can't tell you the amount of times people will fold 99-qq because they cbet a king high flop and I either raised their donk bet or flatted and took it away cause most times they won't continue unless they have ak aa or kk.

Also just about everytime I take a pot down uncontested I tap the table with my cards and hang on to them for a second to make it look like I wanted a call and had the goods when I most likely didn't. Saying good fold or asking them why they didn't call helps too.

Also be very aware of what your image looks like to the rest of the table.I think its best to not blow your image and look like a loose player cause you get no credit after that. If you're picking up hands yeah you'll get paid off more often but lets be honest making good hands is hard and doesn't happen often. I'd rather have the tight image and take down more uncontested pots with nothing. Most live 1-2 players are clueless but they'll remember that one failed bluff you had and put you on bluffs for the rest of the session. If you can't adjust properly you'll spew your chips away fast. If you're getting it in good all the time and losing then your only complaint should be variance but I'm sure you know how all of that works.

So just don't bluff the stations, don't limp too many hands just cause everyone else is, don't abuse your image so that you can get paid or folded to at the right times, don't be rude to the player who sucked out on you, and be somewhat social with the players even if you don't want to. At least if you're talking with the players it will mask the fact that you folded 3 orbits and you'll still get action.

Remember that patience pays off and you should be fine.