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a high level play

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  1. Green Plastic Green Plastic is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 8:23pm)

    here is a little something i thought i might throw out to you guys.... this is an example of a play that no one would ever see but is a high-level bluff....

    here is the hand history, follow by my analysis

    Hand #7316035-1309 at Fortenza (No Limit Hold'em)
    Powered by UltimateBet
    Started at 27/Jul/05 19:52:03

    Fiskelyfisk is at seat 0 with $20882.
    Green Plastic is at seat 5 with $14290.
    The button is at seat 0.

    Fiskelyfisk posts the small blind of $50.
    Green Plastic posts the big blind of $100.

    Fiskelyfisk: -- --
    Green Plastic: 5d 4d

    Pre-flop:

    Fiskelyfisk raises to $300. Green Plastic calls.

    Flop (board: 3h 6h Qd):

    Green Plastic checks. Fiskelyfisk bets $600. Green
    Plastic calls.

    Turn (board: 3h 6h Qd Qc):

    Green Plastic checks. Fiskelyfisk checks.

    River (board: 3h 6h Qd Qc Td):

    Green Plastic bets $550. Fiskelyfisk raises to $1350.
    Green Plastic re-raises to $5550. Fiskelyfisk
    folds. Green Plastic is returned $4200 (uncalled).

    Hand #7316035-1309 Summary:

    Green Plastic wins $4499.50.

    this was an EXTREMELY aggressive game... he raises 90% of the button and was calling 80% of my button raises... ( i was raising about 75% of the time on the button)

    i flopped an open ended straight draw with both of us having deep stacks - a good hand.

    many times i woudl raise this but i was worried he might push me off the hand as i had been caught in a few bluff reraises recently... i decided to call and hope to hit one of my cards...

    i missed on the turn, i check, he checks

    river i miss again, and decide i want to steal the pot... i dont want to bet pot because it may look like some sort of steal and with a pair he would probably call... i want to bet just big enough so he will fold a very small pair/ace high.... but if he calls i will lose the least amount possible...
    i decide to bet about 1/3 the pot.... 550 into a 1800ish pot....

    now, this bet looks like i am trying to protect a low pair..it is a reasonable bet and usually he woudl just fold because it isn't worth trying to raise me off a hand here.... in this case i am guessing he hit a Ten and was pretty sure i was just protecting my low pair.... so he raised me very small, just an 800 raise.... way less than pot sized... he was tryign to get value out of his Ten (my read on him).

    so here's what happened: my bet represented me trying to protect a small pair (what i wanted it to do), he recognized it and tried to get value for his ten.... i recognized this and then got sneaky... i decided to come over the top of him and try to trick him into thinking my very small bet was a teaser with a monster hand.... i made a large reraise to 5500.... now he thought about my original 550 bet and changed his opinion of my hand...he now thought i had a huge hand that i was trying to get him to reraise me with.... he thoguht for the full amount of time and then folded his hand, and i won with 5 high.

    hopefully this will foster some creative thinking at the tables... good luck!

    note: plays like these can only be used against smart opponents!
  2. Lefort Lefort is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 275
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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 8:30pm) in reply to Green Plastic

    I like it. Nicely done.

    Personally I like the check-raise in similar situations.

    ie. he bets the river on what looks like a value bet with a T and you check-raise to an amount that looks like you've got the Q, but this only works if you have played the hand up to this point in the same fashion that someone with a Q may have played it.
     1
  3. LatestLines2 LatestLines2 is online now

    Revere, MA
    United States

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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 8:40pm) in reply to Lefort

    All i can say is...weeeeeeeeee that was fun.
  4. room112 room112 is offline

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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 8:51pm) in reply to Lefort

    a check raise in that situation on the river might come off as a bluff
    Lefort-do you find that your check raise play works in that situation?
    if i was the other player, i would be pretty convinced that GP had it
    from the way he played it

    GP...you are a pimp for posting things like this...thanks for your insights
  5. jbeafore jbeafore is offline

    Morgantown, WV
    United States

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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 8:51pm) in reply to LatestLines2

    Nice play GP, its frustrating when i try to pull a similar move at a lower level, people dont get it. All they worry about is if they have a pair etc. So very creative play, hope to hear more.
  6. Green Plastic Green Plastic is offline

    Chicago, IL
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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 8:54pm) in reply to room112

    agree room -

    who would check a queen twice?? why risk him not betting on the river... i just wouldn't play a queen like this...(except every once in awhile to keep people honest)
    Thread Starter
  7. Schutzhund3 Schutzhund3 is offline

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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 9:01pm) in reply to room112

    I don't think the check raise works as well as this play does. At least not at that level. On more fibel minded opponents yes, but the way that GP played this set him up perfectly..Great example of playing the man (or women) and not the cards...can you say checkmate..well played GP, thanks for the hand
  8. erbloore erbloore is offline

    Huntington Beach, CA
    United States

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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 9:33pm) in reply to Green Plastic

    GP - Great move. I've definitely felt the other end from you in the past. However, I just thought I'd throw this out in hopes of improving further....

    How about a re-raise more like 3500. I know this sounds picky, but think about it.

    If you were trying to change your representation to a teaser bet from a small pair value bet, then certainly, to be consistent, you should re-raise an amount that is close to an amount you would expect him to be committed to call with a decent hand (but slightly higher). Otherwise, your (fake) hand got nothing for a play when it could have gotten called on a value bet from the outset. This eliminates the possibility in his mind that you're betting without a hand and protects against his having a real re-raising hand here like 10-10 because it costs you $2,000.00 less to fold to his all-in.

    To me, it represents the same benefits as the $5,500 raise and looks a lot less to me like a bluff.
    Of course, I know that I just saved myself $2,000 against a raising hand, but how much more would he call? If I make the $5,500.00 play 10 times against this player, he could potentially be capable of picking me off three times. Maybe once more with the $3,500.00. Isn't that more expensive in the long run?

    I find the bets that scare the very best (like you) are the ones that seem most reasonable.

    Let me know what you think,

    Eric ("Blue")
  9. Lefort Lefort is offline

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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 9:43pm) in reply to Green Plastic

    I agree guys, thats why I said "similar" situations. I was just adding another play with the same type of concept..
     1
  10. stealthmunk stealthmunk is offline

    Orange, CT
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    Jul 27th, 2005 (7/27/2005 9:47pm) in reply to Lefort

    this is all nonsense....
    you rivered a flush draw + an open ended straight draw the super draw and you were waiting for 6th street to mint you
    semi bluff that nooby with all the foldequity in the world.
  11. grass da 55 grass da 55 is offline

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    Jul 28th, 2005 (7/28/2005 9:25am) in reply to stealthmunk

    nice raise but honestly, u really see him w/ a pr of 10s here?
  12. BigOrangeFan BigOrangeFan is offline

    Rock Island, TN
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    Jul 28th, 2005 (7/28/2005 9:52am) in reply to grass da 55

    Yeah my guess is A-j
  13. Green Plastic Green Plastic is offline

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    Jul 28th, 2005 (7/28/2005 10:18am) in reply to BigOrangeFan

    yes, i do see him with a pair of tens

    tc
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  14. grass da 55 grass da 55 is offline

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    Jul 28th, 2005 (7/28/2005 10:19am) in reply to BigOrangeFan

    ace high woulda just called the river bet assuming this is heads-up. guy raising 90% in position is likely to have any two cards. i'm assuming this is a rebluffing the bluffer move. i just don't see villian w/ 2 prs here.
  15. Green Plastic Green Plastic is offline

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    Jul 28th, 2005 (7/28/2005 10:33am) in reply to grass da 55

    totally disagree.

    what hand am i going to fold to a 650 raise in a pot of 3000?? call 650 to win 3000, he is smart enough to know that i only have to call and win 1/5 times for it to be the right play, he will RARELY do that with nothing as the only time i fold is when i have nothing at all... and i will have nothing only 1 or 2 times out of 5.

    tc
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