Ok, I have been aggressive with my stack but havent shown down anything out of the ordinary for this blind level. I know KK is almost a never fold spot, but with this action the ranges are so narrowed by the 3rd shove. Does anyone find a fold here or is it cooler central??

Full Tilt Poker Game #10573760381: $40,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (77734256), Table 12 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:18:40 ET - 2009/02/11

Seat 1: ryanwelch (24,440)

Seat 2: HB_HITMAN (4,995)

Seat 3: Vortex2099 (12,340)

Seat 4: Anabooola (3,970)

Seat 5: JohnnyBelow (19,042)

Seat 7: TheStein (2,700)

Seat 8: AnalFetto (16,485)

Seat 9: Paulharvey03 (5,144)

ryanwelch antes 25

HB_HITMAN antes 25

Vortex2099 antes 25

Anabooola antes 25

JohnnyBelow antes 25

TheStein antes 25

AnalFetto antes 25

Paulharvey03 antes 25

AnalFetto posts the small blind of 120

Paulharvey03 posts the big blind of 240

The button is in seat #7

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to ryanwelch [Kd Ks]

ryanwelch has 15 seconds left to act

ryanwelch raises to 720

HB_HITMAN raises to 4,970, and is all in

Vortex2099 folds

Anabooola calls 3,945, and is all in

JohnnyBelow has 15 seconds left to act

JohnnyBelow has requested TIME

JohnnyBelow raises to 19,017, and is all in

TheStein folds

AnalFetto folds

Paulharvey03 folds

ryanwelch has 15 seconds left to act
????????

I was auto calling after the first two shoves, however Johnnybelows shove should never be less than QQ+ right?? MAYYYYbe AK to gamble it out with the two smaller stacks. What do you guys think??

EDIT: Thanks for the responses, judging by stack sizes and the time bank shove of Johnnybelow it made it a pretty easy call here because of really only worrying about beating Johnny for a massive side pot. The first shover had TT, the second had JJ and Johnny had QQ. Somehow i hold and win a massive pot.

I think AK IS in his range, and therfore i go for it.

Let's just say I'm glad I wasn't in your shoes. What did everyone have?

IMO...bet timing has a lot to do with this hand. If im johnny in this spot I am no longer trying to slowplay AA. THere are 2 hands all in and a healthy pot. Therefore with him timebanking, I was much more convinced he had QQ or ak. And even if the other stacks has AA there is a very healthy side pot to be won. This is one of the leading factors in my decision making. I will post hand results after discussion ends.

cooler if Johnny has AA. I cannot imagine folding this.

Not sure I'm ever folding KK here with a chance to win that big of a pot.

i think your range on johnnybelow is correct (QQ+ AK) but i can also see JJ in there, and the time bank does scream AK. and as youve already stated, the sidepot is monstrous. i call and break my monitor when i see AA.

Easiest call ever, basically the main pot is basically secondary, If JBelow folds there and u had a pair of 88+ you would have likely clld with the odds you were getting after the PF raise and the size of your stack, so with him shoving he could have had a similar range and the shove was to iso and eliminate similar hands to his range. Shove and grin when he shows his PP of 9s or 10s... One thing to consider though, is that maybe with the way online or poker in general is played nowadays, does anyone really respect the UTG raise anymore? Maybe against the very nitty type players, but overall I think not...

 

Originally Posted by gutshtallin

Appreciate the input marrocca however i think your range is far too wide for Johnny here. I dont think TT or AQ is ever a profitable call here. Nor is JJ IMO. I am raising utg here as well and the initial 20bb shover still comes over the top. Maybe im wrong but dont think Aq JJ or TT is ever in johnny's range.

gutsht, I agree That TT and AQ are almost never in his range, was just saying that it just might be if he is feeling like gambling/being spewy, but ok lets say we can take that out of his range, cuz its indeed spewy and he is good player. I think JJ is definitely in his range though. Stack sizes are vey important here, and hadnt noticed second shover has even less than 20BB, about 16 or so. This counts towards making it easier for below to call JJ. Counting JJ in his range makes it an 8 second think call, if we leave the range to just QQ, AK and AA, it still makes it a slightly marginal, but profitable, time banking call just to save face in case he has AA lol.

not folding

I think this is a pretty easy call actually. I think JohnnyBelow realizes that QQ and AK are ahead of your opening range here so I doubt he is ever folding those hands. The reason I think he shoves AK here (despite 3 raises) is that two of the people are already all in so he gets 5 cards while only risking 25% of his stack in a sizeable pot.

If only qq+ is in his range then this is still a call. You are 50/50 against johnny with about 10k of dead money in the side pot. If both hands are in his range, then this is a trivially easy call. To fold this hand, you have be sure that he is only raising KK+ here. I'd imagine your history with JohhnyBelow is far more extensive than mine so you could answer that better than me.

hes scandi right, i think regardless of if he had aa or not, and i think hed time bank with AA to make you think he has a decision in case you had something. on top of that, i have seen him do so much crazy spewy shit that if he does have AA so be it. hes made plays with some hands that he shouldnt before in strange spots. my note on him is he massively overvalues everything.

 

Originally Posted by gutshtallin

 

Originally Posted by Aggie_E

Easiest call ever, basically the main pot is basically secondary, If JBelow folds there and u had a pair of 88+ you would have likely clld with the odds you were getting after the PF raise and the size of your stack, so with him shoving he could have had a similar range and the shove was to iso and eliminate similar hands to his range. Shove and grin when he shows his PP of 9s or 10s... One thing to consider though, is that maybe with the way online or poker in general is played nowadays, does anyone really respect the UTG raise anymore? Maybe against the very nitty type players, but overall I think not...

I disagree. IMO the game has really tightened up in the last few months. Also I dont think anyone is shoving my utg raise from utg +1 with that wide of a range. And the secondary shover has to know that. It would be great to get Johnnybelow to add input here but i would highly doubt he gets any hand in here less than AK or QQ.

Sorry I didn`t see this before, just looking through some posts now.

Tbh, I think I muck AK here pretty easily and if the 1st or the 2nd shover had a bigger stack I would seriously concider laying down Qs as well. I thought I was ahead of them in this spot though and then decided to shove to isolate. I don`t really know what I would have done with AA, but I think I would have shoved them as well as there is already a lot of chips in the pot and don`t really want another player in there.

But I would have timebanked aces too fwiw, just to think it through.

 

Originally Posted by RGallaway

why did you only raise 3 blinds?, just prefrence or what not? I like to make 4.5 or so with KK there.

lol