This hand took place 20 min into a $26 MTT. Early in a sng I would have folded this on the turn, despite the odds, to preserve my stack, but I've heard people say all the time that you have to take the odds when you are getting them in MTTs. I was hoping to hit and triple up here, does this make sense or is it just wrong to call off all your chips so early on a draw? Obv if Allin528 hadn't called on the flop I would have folded right then...
Full Tilt Poker Game #2323788650: $19,000 Guarantee (17132276), Table 107 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:21:06 ET - 2007/04/30
Seat 1: JLO63 (1,310)
Seat 2: Irish4Leaf (2,020)
Seat 3: BRBbbq (1,355)
Seat 4: Allin528 (2,270)
Seat 5: Mr Mack Bust (1,270)
Seat 6: RiccoS (2,190)
Seat 7: RushingTilt (1,540)
Seat 8: MCG22 (1,690)
Seat 9: CrucialHandz (1,155)
Allin528 posts the small blind of 20
Mr Mack Bust posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MCG22 [Jd Kd]
MCG22 calls 40
JLO63 calls 40
Irish4Leaf calls 40
Allin528 calls 20
Mr Mack Bust checks
*** FLOP *** [Ad 6d Kc]
Mr Mack Bust checks
MCG22 bets 120
JLO63 raises to 560
Allin528 calls 560
Mr Mack Bust folds
MCG22 calls 440
*** TURN *** [Ad 6d Kc] [3c]
JLO63 bets 710, and is all in
Allin528 calls 710
MCG22 has 15 seconds left to act
MCG22 calls 710
*** RIVER *** [Ad 6d Kc 3c] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JLO63 shows [6h Ah] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
JLO63 wins the pot (4,010) with two pair, Aces and Sixes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,010 | Rake 0
Board: [Ad 6d Kc 3c Jc]
Seat 1: JLO63 showed [6h Ah] and won (4,010) with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 2: Irish4Leaf folded on the Flop
Seat 3: BRBbbq (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Allin528 (small blind) mucked [As 8d] - a pair of Aces
Seat 5: Mr Mack Bust (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: RiccoS didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: RushingTilt didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: MCG22 mucked [Jd Kd] - two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 9: CrucialHandz didn't bet (folded)
Im shoving in the spot that you smooth called after the flop...
you were losing chips anyway but you had a monster flop and should have got it all in there
that early i shove flop..
Agreed, with that many outs I would shove it and hope for a double/triple. But I also have a -47% roi on OPR, so what do I know. :p
notice how the above three comments didnt help or woulda helped change any outcome?
next stick to your gut (it was right)
sidenote if you play big stack or bust theory then its auto shove
OMFG so results-oriented its sick... Im sorry, but dont listen to what 1eyed said...
EDIT: Sorry if i came off as a jerk, im just very very very adament about my position here, lol
^^^ sok is wise
2nd pair, nut flush draw, how do u NOT shove this flop, especially with that action??
Also, it very well could be a 3-way allin, so with the money in the pot and your odds of hitting, it is such an unbelievably +ev play
Um i guess some dont read the whole thread
read the guys question, understand what hes asking(the sitngo part)
i personally auto shove that flop too
he didnt AS so now what
Umm, i'd rather not auto-shove... the way he played it had everyone ending up committing themselves, and thats exactly what i want with this hand
soooo you want want everyone committed to this hand that you are still bluffing at?
you cant beleive your king is good
bluffing?! run the odds and compare the pot odds... You are in no way bluffing. You have monster odds and a monster draw...
ooops i posted the wrong stats i guess im the guy who needs to pay attention
i agree with everything your saying except why the turn?
if someone only had an ace on the flop they could now have 2pair (in this case villian already had it) but now you have less chance of them folding
dont ignore the guys read either
^this makes no sense
i would push that flop, not smooth call and make a move on the turn.
Edit: BTW sok can i have 20 cents?
yeah thats what i was saying ...the odds i posted were wrong but give the action the only hand the has him beat there is 66 or a6 ...i mean the guy certainly is not representing a set here so that means that in order for him to even be behing in the hand he has to put the man on ace six which would be pretty hard to do...either way he has odds to call/push being a 60/40 dog ...of course push is the answer
Thanks for all the replies guys... The concencus seems to be to push on the flop. Does anyone else have any other comments/suggestions?
First of all no I would not say this is bad so much. There are different ways people play this, but most as you can see would reshove all in on the flop. Here is what I see: Everyone just flat called preflop so you can't really put anyone on a huge hand say trip aces or kings or often not AK after the flop action, so it could be a worse flush draw or two pair (maybe 66.) So as I see it your outs are a K, a diamond and maybe a J if they are raising with a decent A not 2 pair. But another reason for the push on the flop is that they could fold and it is a pretty decent pot already. However I think you could make a case for folding here or am I just wrong. Basically what kind of hand can you put JLO on, at least 2 pair? he is raising enough to idealy rid of the flush draw, so I think he is fairly strong here at least 2 pair, also odds wise I do not see him folding his hand ever. Looking at how much you have in the flop a whole 40 chips. if you put him on A6o and assuming the other guy folds your odds are: 40% to win the hand, if you put him on a set then it's 30%. Best case he has a bad ace and calls and then you are favourite 51-49 but I think thats unlikely. There just seem no point in defending the chips you have in the pot, and no point getting your money in behind. But then you've got to gamble I guess, I would just feel a lot more confident getting this money in on a K high flop say with the same action.
Yeah, more aggression on the flop, obviously, though you'd've been in there with the A6o anyway. What you needed to do was raise preflop to get out hands like A6 and A8, or just not play KJ there to begin with (though I like opening with it more than folding).
I am I doing the math correct here?
9 outs for the flush + 2 kings = 11 outs 31/11 = 2.81
200 + 120 + 560 + 560 = 1440/440 = 3.27
Call on flop is correct
4.64 on the turn
Call on turn correct?
the hand was not played badly, i would prefer to shove the flop myself, but after you missed that, calling the turn is fine
I left the Jacks out. I asume I have to beat Aces.