I have no idea what he's flatting me with here. I suspect his range could be huge given he is on the button. But isn't his optimal play getting his entire stack in pre? Should this have been a snap call for me? Is checking the flop here completely unacceptable? I was debating whether this is supposed to be easy for me to get away from or not. I ended up tank folding. Thx.


Full Tilt Poker Game #22780455969: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (175744132), Table 20 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:33:54 ET - 2010/08/02
Seat 1: berbenua (41,084)
Seat 2: Kiokuu (14,552)
Seat 3: Yes_Mercy (31,399)
Seat 4: junky621 (65,098)
Seat 5: Cappucine (24,675)
Seat 6: TJ Borracho (21,732)
Seat 7: CuscoCayman (40,228)
Seat 8: clai47al (31,572)
Seat 9: the_big_A85 (68,660)
berbenua antes 200
Kiokuu antes 200
Yes_Mercy antes 200
junky621 antes 200
Cappucine antes 200
TJ Borracho antes 200
CuscoCayman antes 200
clai47al antes 200
the_big_A85 antes 200
CuscoCayman posts the small blind of 800
clai47al posts the big blind of 1,600
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to junky621 [Ah Qd]
the_big_A85 folds
berbenua folds
Kiokuu folds
Yes_Mercy folds
junky621 raises to 3,997
Cappucine folds
TJ Borracho calls 3,997
CuscoCayman folds
clai47al folds
*** FLOP *** [Ts 2c 3c]
junky621 has 15 seconds left to act
lpic (Observer): pa juste sa tjs les memes
junky621 checks
TJ Borracho bets 17,535, and is all in
junky621 has 15 seconds left to act
junky621 has requested TIME
junky621 folds
Uncalled bet of 17,535 returned to TJ Borracho
TJ Borracho mucks
TJ Borracho wins the pot (12,194)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12,194 | Rake 0
Board: [Ts 2c 3c]
Seat 1: berbenua folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Kiokuu folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Yes_Mercy folded before the Flop
Seat 4: junky621 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Cappucine folded before the Flop
Seat 6: TJ Borracho (button) collected (12,194), mucked
Seat 7: CuscoCayman (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: clai47al (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: the_big_A85 folded before the Flop

 

Originally Posted by P33J

I probably prefer cbet/folding personally versus a random, but check/fold is fine too.

How can you possibly cbet/fold here with these stacks??????

im just putting him all in on flop without any reads i think

you guys ever heard of a pocket pair? Perfect flop to ship in for pp. WP

I'm betting 3550 and folding unimproved

I like this....you only have to get a fold about 30% of this time for this to be profitable and I am pretty sure it will work more often than that. Plus there are there the times you will hit the turn if called.

 

Originally Posted by The Lab Rat

hit the pot button and then call off the remaning 5k

this

Without reads, this is just a bad $5player. I would have shoved any flop, and see what he does. I think the flat indicates he might be bad (unless he has AA), but, then its a cooler hand.

I shove flop there. Check folding isn't bad against good tricky players, but it is against $5 randoms

 

Originally Posted by Steve Murkle

check call for value?

Bet calling here is the best but as played check call for value

Ya, i've always wondered about this play. Do you think they are shoving air enough for this to be +ev?

 

Originally Posted by Steve Murkle

Think about it like this. If the guy jammed pre we would have called, whether he has ak or 22 or k10, We don't ever fold to 13 bb there. However, he flatted pre, so we can take AK out of his range but can't eliminate any other hands really. (I'm assuming he is bad for flatting with 13 bbs and his range could be wide). If we bet call, and he has 22-jj etc, we still have outs, and if we lose its like we lost a race that we got all in preflop anyway (he also puts it in with air and worse aces sometimes when we bet call). This is why I think bet call is best here. But by checking, we feign weakness and he just jams, therefore I'm assuming he does this with mostly air but sometimes 22-99 and random 10s. The thing is, if he does have a set or aces or kings, he will try and get value from our weakness and this doesn't come from checking. So we can safely eliminate those hands. So by calling his shove we are ahead of a lot of his airish hands and we are still live verse his 10s and small PPs. If we lose just chalk it up to losing a flip and move on

Interesting. I like the thought process. Thanks for the explanation

This generally screams pp less than TT to me, gauging the flop and going with anything "not scary". If you shove, he calls because that's exactly the flop he was looking for. If you bet, he shoves because it's exactly the flop he was looking for. So if you want to go with the "lost coinflip" theory, then you might as well get it in. As Murkle said, I can't imagine he has anything that your AQ can't outdraw there. Turn will come a J or K anyway to give you more possibilities. I promise.